RobertBenton
I'm not sure if that is taboo or not, but it's true. It's gotten to the point to where I don't want to DM anymore. I try to create a beautiful world, with only a slight sandbox storyline, and it just gets wasted. All their characters are "flat" characters with no real personality. They seem to only want to be drunks, rapists, murderers, etc. When they get caught the biggest hissy fit gets thrown. They meta-game furiously, and when that is punished, they moan or just quit. There's no ambition, with one player only wanting to go to an arena or set up stage fights, another only interested in his character drinking, and another who demands that his lvl 3 rogue have super powers.
It's not fun anymore, and now they wonder why I don't DM anymore. Why would I want to? They display no teamwork, no creativity, and no respect for the rules or even common sense. Its boring and draining to create and create and create so that a group of whiney psychopaths can take a dump on it. I can't find ways to engage them, or even just let them know that common sense dictates that a string of murders may get you hanged!
Anyone else have this problem? Is there a way to drag them out of this? I love D&D but I'm falling out of it with each play session.
Comments
I know some feel that a gm should bend over, but I am too old to do that. The group I have now has helped me make the world, adds to the world (after a year of play, someone came up with something that changed things enough I am re-writing an entire section). It is our game, our sandbox, and their characters. I could not be happier.
killervp
"A God...Rebuilt":http://www.obsidianportal.com/campaigns/a-god-rebuilt
"Duskreign's First Ever COTM":http://www.obsidianportal.com/campaigns/wyrmshadow/wiki_pages/112011
"OP's COTM April 2012":http://blog.obsidianportal.com/a-god-rebuilt-aprils-cotm/
Just trying to help out.
Cheers,
-Arsheesh
My humble advise is simply this: If you aren't terribly attached to the group, then drop out and find some like-minded players to game with. It you are then either gm a free-for-all munchkin-style burn-em-up game with the old group or get one of them to gm and seek your inner psycho. If you have enough time and inclination, do both!
Trying to brow beat people who are that out of step with your desired gaming style isn't going to make anyone happy, though, and revenge via TPK usually only pisses the players off. It sure feels good, though...
So my advice is to run the game they want. if they want to just run around doing what you consider nonsense then really all that does is lighten your workload, you dont need intricate plot or npcs or setting, you just need to do stuff that will make them happy. If your first level rogue player wants super powers then maybe thats an indication that they want to play in a game where they're actually powerful. Run that game, make it challenging, create adversaries that they have to work to overcome. Theres this kind of beautiful tranquility in these seemingly two dimensional games.
Gaming is supposed to be a bunch of people sitting around having fun. as the gm your entitled to that fun too, but so are your players. When i run a game, when im planning something, when im writing an nc, the first and last thought in my head is "will they enjoy this part?". With that said enjoy can mean many things. they wont enjoy fighting a viciously powerful enemy, but they will enjoy the feeling of overcoming it. They wont enjoy when one of their characters friends gets murdered, but they will enjoy bringing the murderer to justice and the memories of the adventure when they look back on it.
In short, just give them what they want, build the game for them and see where it goes. Overtime you may start to see complexity build itself into their actions and thier characters. if that doesnt happen then when the game is finished simply ask "i want to run this kind of game, we did your thing for the last game may i have a turn at something i really like?"
Romance
Combat
intrigue
action
Historical
Horror
Mystery
Play
Romance
Sci-Fi
Spiritual
Supernatural
you can add more.
Once you get an understanding of what each player wants you can cultivate your games to suit the group and you will have a better experience. If the players dont want to work with you on creating the world you desire then look for new players.
goodluck
-Steve
"Star Trek Late Night":http://www.obsidianportal.com/campaigns/star-trek-late-night
After a few years, I was eventually asked to DM for some friends of mine that were interested in D&D since I had been talking about it so much. I agreed and just like myself before them they only really wanted to rape and murder (although they managed to do something with quests along the way) and that's when I realized just how much of an a-hole I was to the DM with my own play style. Furthermore, since I was attempted to create a story for them I realized how much fun it was (for me anyway) to come up with a story (world building didn't become too important to me until a few years later when I started my GURPS campaign). That campaign didn't last very long. I was too inexperienced to deal with the players and college was fast approaching (when we'd split up).
I did continue to roleplay in other campaigns as a player, and I began to care more about the world. I actually tried to make a backstory with my next character, for once, instead of just messing with the mechanical aspects of the character. When I was done with the backstory I was actually proud to show it off (to my gf first who was quick to tell me that my spelling sucked and the story was kinda lame so yeah...). When it came time to play I actually knew what my character was like, had an idea for what he'd do in different situations. Something besides sitting there thinking, "I should slit that guy's throat and take his coinpurse because I'm a rogue and that's what rogues do." I still didn't much care for the world I was in aside from it being a place that my character could now interact with others and create legends about himself, but now I wasn't running around ruining the game for the GM or the other players.
A few years later and I've met a whole new group of people in college (thank you Chess and Games Club) who were willing to not only play boardgames with me, but were also into roleplaying as well. It wasn't long before I had decided that I wouldn't mind giving it go at being a GM again and offered to run a GURPS game for my newly found friends. I got 5 players. I had an idea of a world where I didn't want humans being the predominant race (which I keep coming back to) and to fit that idea I decided to create the world they'd play on. I drew a rough map of the continent they'd play on, with the idea that a second continent exists somewhere on the world, unknown to the players at first. I also created a race that had been predominant until Space Pirates came to the world and ruined them. This race went into hiding underwater and still lived there at the start of the game. The other races ("typical" Elves, Dwarves, and Humans) lived on the continent previously owned by the Stroda (previous race) and were not very advanced technologically (although many "artifacts" could be found on the continents). With this idea, I entered the realm of world building and realized that I liked this too. I really enjoyed coming up with history for the players to figure out and other locations for them to find if they chose to go that route. My players never really added anything to the world, but that was ok because they seemed to be enjoying themselves (and they were actually attempting to follow my plot hooks instead of raping and murdering*).
==*== with some exceptions...
Now that I've typed that all up I realize that my life-story wasn't really necessary for suggesting to you that you ask one of your players to GM for once, but I don't want to delete all of that either so there you go (also explains the two post comment).
Anyway, try asking one of them to give it a shot and if they don't want to or it doesn't spark that creativity you might heavily consider not playing with them anymore (at least roleplay) and finding another group.
Jerry, still my favorite post ever of yours, because it was so personal, and we have all been there before. In case the rest of you don't know, Jerry does a great blog, "Dread Gazebo":http://dreadgazebo.net/
killervp
"A God...Rebuilt":http://www.obsidianportal.com/campaigns/a-god-rebuilt
"Duskreign's First Ever COTM":http://www.obsidianportal.com/campaigns/wyrmshadow/wiki_pages/112011
"OP's COTM April 2012":http://blog.obsidianportal.com/a-god-rebuilt-aprils-cotm/
Just trying to help out.
In hindsight I also should mention I did a follow up post talking about how I was "less than perfect as a DM as well":http://dreadgazebo.net/how-to-lose-friends-and-alienate-players/. I was being a shit head too, in the end It all boils down to honesty, just be honest with your players and yourself. Eventually the good stuff will bubble to the top.
I think you have to locate the source... If it's you, you need to ask yourself why. If you're burnt out, maybe you just need a break; if it's the system or campaign, maybe try something new.
If it's them... (and after reading your description I would never want to GM a group like that) you might need to find a new group (yipes!)
But usually it's something in between... You're burnt out, they smell blood and start playing the fool. Or they aren't buying into the campaign and start goofing off, which in turn, feeds your disquiet.
I would recommend you stop playing immediately, but keep the game night going with a few board games (which will also help to you see whether it's you, them, the game or the dynamic)
In the end, I think *Invictus* had it right, it sounds like your issues transcend the game and lay with the people.
Start a discussion about how your'e feeling and why they're acting the way they are and see if you can reconcile.
If not, find a new group or start again- But only after you've taken break!
I've been in groups that had to 'discourage' problem players; I've walked away from groups on the first night of play; my favourite RPG blogs are people I listen to for advice, but would never play with; I've played ran 2 player campaigns because we didn't trust the only potential recruits available; I've had to shut down campaigns because players didn't like the system of their characters.
It's hard to juggle all these different aspects of the game including a good GM, and getting your players buying in to a system but think that the group is almost more important than the game itself and constructing and maintaining a good dynamic can be difficult... but worth persisting at.
And whatever you do don't give up on gaming because of a few jerks (general advice, not specific to your group)!
Damienmaster
"Rogue Traders... May 2012 COTM":http://www.obsidianportal.com/campaigns/roguetraders
And then I would say "What would you like for your next character?" If the did the same w/ the new character I would engage in "wash, rinse, & repeat" from above and it would happen faster the second time.
Either they would learn this is not acceptable and change their playing style or leave the group.
That kind of "role playing" isn't (IMO). It is just the ID running wild (see the movie Forbidden Planet)...
As a GM I will not put up with that kind of behavior.
Bottom line is, you're the one putting in the time and effort of coming up with adventures and a campaign that goes with it. If they don't respect your time or you personally, you need to find people that do.
Good luck!
The idea of running a game tailored to their wants is a really good one, but it doesn't really allow for you to exercise that creative mind I know you have. If experienced players are sparse in your area that would be the best way to go. This affords these sociopaths the ability to let them get the bloodlust out of their systems. Keep the consequences low-key, but do sprinkle them in. In time, they will get bored with it and want to explore the more nuanced play style that is seasoned RPG; intricate plots, puzzle solving, diplomatic NPC interaction, etc. You CAN enjoy this barbaric play style by laughing at their actions quietly to yourself knowing full well what would happen if you were running a serious and nuanced game. Knowing when to switch to your preferred style is relatively easy: when you say "role initiative" for the 5th time in the night for the 10th night in a row and they moan that they're getting tired of combat, you know you're getting close. Have them do a questionaire like Stephen suggested, but keep it simple. Once they start bemoaning the hack-and-slash lifestyle, have them do another more intricate questionaire. Create situations where it's in their best interest to help each other. The more love they cultivate not just for their character, but the PC's around them, the more likely they are to question each other about potentially troublesome actions instead of you trying to stonewall them into following your views. Have a few work together to build backstories that play off of each other. The idea of adventuring siblings cast from their family or traveling monks who lost their monastery are good starts. The cultivation of a backstory plays a profound difference on how much they value their character's well being.
Conversely, politely bow out and say "I like hanging out with you guys, but I f***ing hate the way you play. Lets go fly a kite!"