4E question

edited August 2008 in General Discussion


  • spidieman
    Posts: 38
    not sure if there is enough population here to have a role playing forum for chit chatting and what not.

    however i have a question to other 4E dm's out there

    is it fair to pit my players against a monster that is in fact a full fledged character? It just seems the 'monster' i built (being the BBEG) could TPK.
  • RobJustice
    Posts: 178
    That depends on a lot of factors.... I would say it would be fair if you were sensible about it. Clearly if you pit a Level 20 Wizard vs a group of 2nd Level PCs... its bad news time.
  • FemmeLegion
    Posts: 521
    I've no 4E experience to lend here, but I have some Amtgard experience:

    The Monster Manual for Amtgard lists the average Quester:Monster ratio for various beasties - how many regular players it should take to defeat a monster of the same level. But there's one thing that the MM can never EVER account for: Amtgard is live-action combat and so personal skill levels often count for more than character levels.

    It's the same here. Heck, lots of other things will come into play. Terrain can give advantage to one side or the other, for example. But one really big advantage you have by creating the BBEG character is that you should be intimately familiar with what it can do, and in what circumstances it'd be most advantageous to do them. That's the "personal skill level" in D&D, and it can mean the difference between fighting smart and leaving yourself open. My friend Dennis could be a terrifying GM when running published modules in 3.5, because he'd look at the stated tactics of the BBEG, look at what else it can do, and throw out the published tactics because he had a better idea.

    Oh, another Amtgard anecdote: People joke that people playing spellcasters have a Q:M ratio of 10:1 because the rules only allow you to have 1 of each spellcasting class per 10 people on a team. I haven't played enough 4E to know if magic still has a parabolic power progression, but even with what I've seen of the low-level stuff you could easily have hand-picked a few powers that are guaranteed to stymy or outright counteract whatever the players planned to do.
  • sisren
    Posts: 30
    The best asnwer to this might already be in the DMG under 'Creating NPCs' in the DM's Toolbox chapter (chapt 10). They say that you can do this - but you need to water it down a bit.
    at-will powers: choose 1
    encounter powers: choose 1 (+1 of lower level if at level 11+) of the NPC's level
    daily: choose 1 of the NPC's level (+1 of lower level if level 21+)
    utility: choose 1 of the NPC's level (+1 of lower level if at level 11+) (and) (+1 of lower level if level 21+)

    I'm not sure if you have the DMG or not, but I can help you figure this out more if you'd like.
  • spidieman
    Posts: 38
    Yeah, must of been one of the sections i skipped lol

    Thanks sisren, my party has been finding out of the book stuff from WoTC to be less than a challenge, i have had to upgrade everything, add minions without adding xp. its at the point now where its nice and challenging and everyone is having a good time. i'll keep him at a fully
  • sisren
    Posts: 30
    My group has had a heck of a time with the out-of-book stuff. I almost killed 1 with the dragon @ kobald hall! They actually were in a panic mode for the 1st time in a *very* long time...

    Minions are only supposed to slow them down for 1 round. Are you trying to balance the encounters? It's a bit different than 3.x...
  • spidieman
    Posts: 38
    here is what i do for minions

    if the xp for the encounter is 150 pp (150 per player) i have 150 worth of minions in there, so it does not through it off to much.

    i'm not trying to make up for 3.5 i have always had to toughen stuff up for my players, they are extremely talented.

    There is always at least 5 people from a Cleric, Fighter, Wizards, Warlock, Warlord and Rogue.

    They work as a team, and know exactly what to do, and how to follow formation.
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