One of my players NEVER sheaths his weapon, should I allow it?

oldmanofdoom
edited January 2014 in Campaign Portal Building
One of my players has a swordmage and refuses to sheath his longsword. He sleeps with it by his side, carries it all the time, talks to people while holding it, etc. The only times he ever puts it away is when he needs both hands for something. I already told him it doesn't make any sense, it's dangerous and makes his look like a psychopath and that it is probably a great hassle to be doing all sorts of stuff while holding it, but he refuses to listen. Should I just let him do as he wishes, or do you think I should insist? He doesn't want to use the minor action to take it out, and complains he'll lose his AC bonus if he's not holding it. I told him to invest in his Percepction so he won't be taken by surprise and is able to pull it out if he senses danger, but he doesn't want to. What should I do?

Comments

  • SkidAce
    SkidAce
    Posts: 830
    Let him do it.

    Overall its a small thing. Just enforce putting it away for things like climbing a ladder, that take two hands. Or during an audience with the king.

    Unconquered Kingdoms, July 2016 CotM

  • Kallak
    Kallak
    Posts: 1,090
    It's his character, so he'll do what he likes, but make him live with the consequences - of which there should be many and often. No city/town constabulary worth their salt is going to let someone wander around with a sword in hand without being stopped. Merchants and tradesmen are unlikely to conduct business with someone "holding them at sword-point". Common folk will likely assume him to be some manner of raider or brigand. Catching a ledge to stop himself from falling will be considerably more difficult with one hand occupied...etc. Make the penalties outweigh the benefits and he'll stop.

    That said, I'd tell him to quit meta gaming. His character has no concept of minor actions or armor class alterations due to holding or not holding a weapon. Unless he has some in-character reason to be constantly on guard, he's meta gaming.
    All the best,
    - Kallak
  • Leonidas300
    Leonidas300
    Posts: 275
    cut both the character's hands off.
  • Maesenko
    Maesenko
    Posts: 325
    I'm with Kallak on this one. I can't possibly imagine any reason to really allow him to continue meta-gaming.

    Of course, you _could_ remind this swordmage that there is such a creature as a Rust Monster...

    _~Mae_
    "Whispers in Tamris":https://whispers-in-tamris.obsidianportal.com/

    ~Mae

    CotM Selection Committee

  • WolfLord
    WolfLord
    Posts: 278
    Do it just like in the Witcher games. If you got your sword out you got like 5 seconds before the guards attack you. Think of it this way, in the U.S. you can have a gun in a holster, but if u got that shit in your hand cops are gonna shoot you like immediately

    DM, Current Campaign: The Godlands: Rise of the Blood Moon Kings

    DM, Previous Campaign: Avatar: Conquest of the Imperial Order - CotM: November 2011

  • Beaumains
    Beaumains
    Posts: 132
    Agree with Kallak completely. Also, a sword not sheathed is susceptible to the environment (blunting, rusting, corroding, chipping, etc.) and is also a real hazard to the character and adjacent persons (minor cuts or accidental slicing/stabbing, but could conceivably be worse), and a perceived hazard to everyone within sight (as Kallak & Tolsimir pointed out). Note that the AC bonus such as you describe probably goes away when the character is surprised, and enemies have obvious incentive to target the "prepared" one first. In many ways this is like someone insisting on brandishing a torch at all times for fear the sun and/or moon may go out; even explaining something in game may warrant a trip to the local asylum. The rules are, ultimately, a quickguide for GMs to adjucate outcomes of declared actions - you are by no means restricted to those enumerated, and Rule 0 has always trumped every other one (though I advise non-tyrannical implementation). If a player chooses to take unrealistic actions for his character, when he drew up his character with the understanding that the world would be (more or less) "realistic," then you are well within your _responsibility_ to model and adjucate realistic consequences. Even magic items are not impervious to callous treatment, and artifacts (or at least intelligent items) may _choose_ to not function for such a character. If all else fails, you may remind them that the Dungeon Master's Guide (at least a third of which is good for GMs of all stripes) suggests that impossible encounters be 'on the table' - that is, a 'realistic world' has challenges of all sorts wherever they happen to be, not merely where and when it's most convenient for the players to find them. If none of that works, you might consider flipping the tables on him, and having the guards goblins & peasants alike always have swords drawn "ready for anything" all the time so that he and the party have to navigate and deal with exactly the same sort of people they seem to think are normal.

    Hope this helps!
    -Beaumains
  • GamingMegaverse
    GamingMegaverse
    Posts: 3,001
    Stumble, fall, slice self.... odds go up when running, difficult terrain, etc....

    Just trying to help out.

  • SkidAce
    SkidAce
    Posts: 830
    Make sure you do the same thing to the spear carriers, halberds, war hammers (could stub a toe). And that chain mail could be rusting. (just funning with y'all)

    Just my opinion, once you go down that road it leads to the dark side. Obviously there are some situations having it out all the time would be detrimental. Apply those.

    But don't get carried away with the details and "punishing" (my words) the character. There are a thousand other little things the other characters are glossing over that could be accounted for.

    BL: Make sure the player knows there may be situations where having a sword ready will be socially bad. Give him chance to put it away. If he doesn't he accepts the consequences.

    Unconquered Kingdoms, July 2016 CotM

  • twiggyleaf
    twiggyleaf
    Posts: 2,011
    I'm with SkidAce on his original answer.
    Just let him do it. But let him see the expression in your face that says: "why the hell do you have to be a big pain in the ass about all this...."

    ...but to force people to do things (especially things so inconsequential to your storylines) is heading for disaster if it is something he feels so strongly about. With the others all playing differently, he might end up changing by himself anyway, which would be a far more favorable outcome.

    twigs

    "I met a traveller from an antique land....."

    CotM May 2016: Mysteria: set in Wolfgang Baur’s MIDGARD.

    Previous CotM Aug 2012: Shimring: High Level Multiplanar Campaign

    Inner Council Member

  • bluesguy
    bluesguy
    Posts: 127
    I would privately let him know that he is meta gaming his character and that if he wants his character to walk around with a sword all the time that you won't stop him but you will make sure there are consequences for carrying an open blade around. I would create a table with the following and just roll a die every once and a while and let him know what happens.

    * City Guard hassles
    * Entire party rounded up by the guard because they are hanging out with a 'brigand' (kind of like the cops rounding up everyone in a gang because they are trying to get at one member)
    * Merchants tell him to leave their shop
    * Tavern & Inn owners tell him to leave
    * Slips, falls, and cuts himself or someone else - bad enough it is annoying but not bad enough to kill
    * Slips, falls and breaks his sword (oops your sword landed under you with the flat of the blade hitting a big rock and then you landed on the end and the damn thing snapped or bent)
    * Slips, falls and nicks his sword - which causes it to be less effective
    * Falls off his horse if the horse is galloping
    * In Hero Games there is the concept of Endurance - I would penalize him 1 Long Term Endurance for every two hours he is walking around with the blade in his hand
    * Wakes up in the morning covered in blood because he cut himself a few times with the blade
  • Keryth987
    Keryth987
    Posts: 1,047
    It's a simple solution really, but, swords are not light and not designed to be carried all the time. As a day progresses, have his hand get tired and he start dropping the sword. Its what would happen for real.


    Keelah Se'lai,
    Keryth
    "Shadows Over New York":http://www.obsidianportal.com/campaigns/shadows-over-new-york
    "2013 Campaign of The Year":http://blog.obsidianportal.com/2013-coty-shadows-over-new-york/
    "Campaign of the Month July 2013":http://blog.obsidianportal.com/shadows-over-new-york-julys-campaign-of-the-month/

  • Savannah
    Savannah
    Posts: 188
    A couple of people have mentioned he's metagaming. How, exactly, is it metagaming for someone to go "Gee, I'm really good at deflecting things with my sword. If I have my sword out all the time, I'll always be prepared in case something attacks!" when he's in a line of work where, quite frankly, a lot of things attack him?

    I agree with having logical social (town guard stop him, merchants freak out and call the guard) and practical (always has one hand occupied) consequences. I disagree with making up random bad things (I rolled a 12, so....you trip and cut yourself!) to happen to him. The former is making the game world consistent and logical (but be sure to warn him in advance and explain your reasoning, so he doesn't feel like you're deliberately picking on him -- speaking of which, also think hard about the rest of your PCs and give them the same sort of consequences for any odd behaviors). The latter is passive-aggressively banning holding one's sword at all times, and never ends well. If you have that much of a negative reaction to it, just outright ban it and take the consequences.
  • Kallak
    Kallak
    Posts: 1,090
    @Savannah, he's meta gaming for having the sword out because he has no IN character reason for doing so. He is purely seeking to retain the AC bonus and avoid having to use an action to draw it if/when combat occurs. His character may know that he's good at deflecting with a sword, but this does not translate into game statistics and player action uses. The bottom line is, the motivations for the sword being out at all times are player driven, not character driven, thus meta gaming.
    All the best,
    - Kallak
  • calubrecht
    calubrecht
    Posts: 3
    The character knows he's good at defending with the sword, and it takes time to draw. That's character knowledge that motivates wanting to have the sword out at all times.
  • Kallak
    Kallak
    Posts: 1,090
    The character would also know that having his sword out constantly without provocation is at the least inappropriate, at the worst illegal. Bottom line - and again, unless there's a reason for the character to be on guard - the motivations are PLAYER driven, not CHARACTER driven, thus meta gaming.
    All the best,
    - Kallak
  • Savannah
    Savannah
    Posts: 188
    The only explanation we have for the character keeping their sword out is that it provides AC and taking it out would take too long. Even though the character does not know his AC, he's certainly capable of understanding that having the sword out provides protection and that it takes a couple of (potentially vital) seconds to draw a sword.

    Based on the information available, it is not possible to say whether this is an instance of a player looking only at the numbers, or a player playing a paranoid character, or a player playing a character who's used to unexpected attacks, or a player who's had a bad history of DMs screwing his characters over with unavoidable sneak attacks, or something else entirely. Some of the motivations I've listed are player driven. Some are character driven. None are known to any of us in this thread. I don't think it's fair to say 'oh, he's metagaming, just tell him to stop' when there are obvious in-character reasons for the behavior, since that would a) take away the player's ability to control the one thing in the game that he can control and b) imply that I fully understand both the player's and character's motivations and have judged them insufficient.
  • Kallak
    Kallak
    Posts: 1,090
    If you go back and reread the original post, you will see the the player himself was stated as complaining about having to use a minor action and losing his AC bonus. This is a player worried about game stats. Meta gaming. Period.

    Now, whether or not the DM has made the player paranoid with constant ambushes, we don't have the information at hand to say, but there's clear evidence of meta gaming. A sideline discussion with the player resulted in nothing but concern for game stats. A more clear case of meta gaming I can hardly bring to mind in a moment's notice.
    All the best,
    - Kallak
  • twiggyleaf
    twiggyleaf
    Posts: 2,011
    Gosh, I hope oldmanofdoom is getting something out of all this.......

    twigs

    "I met a traveller from an antique land....."

    CotM May 2016: Mysteria: set in Wolfgang Baur’s MIDGARD.

    Previous CotM Aug 2012: Shimring: High Level Multiplanar Campaign

    Inner Council Member

  • Savannah
    Savannah
    Posts: 188
    I often use stats that my character would have no way of knowing to express in-character choices that would take much longer to explain if I insisted on using only terminology that my character would use. Apparently you don't, which is probably why we're reading the same OP and you're seeing metagaming where I'm not.

    Regardless, twiggyleaf is right, this is largely beside the point, so I'll stop arguing about it now.
  • oldmanofdoom
    Posts: 12 edited February 2014
    Thank you all for your answers, I talked to him and we agreed that I'll let him do it but NPCs may react badly to it. I've no doubt he'll at least put it away during social interaction, though with his high endurance we agreed that the character will probably not suffer a penalty for getting tired. And I MIGHT just be guilty of throwing really though things at them, hehe.
    Post edited by oldmanofdoom on
  • twiggyleaf
    twiggyleaf
    Posts: 2,011
    Sounds like you have come to a good resolution, oldmanofdoom! I commend you.

    twigs

    "I met a traveller from an antique land....."

    CotM May 2016: Mysteria: set in Wolfgang Baur’s MIDGARD.

    Previous CotM Aug 2012: Shimring: High Level Multiplanar Campaign

    Inner Council Member

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