DnD 4th

Kabniel
Kabniel
edited June 2008 in General Discussion

Comments

  • Kabniel
    Kabniel
    Posts: 6
    So the books are out officially. Thoughts?

    I never payed attention to the rumors and previews so most of the content was a surprise for me. So far I like most of the changes. On one hand I'm disappointed in the lack of stat stacking and cutting down spell lists. But I do see the reasoning. Sometimes it was kind of tedious trying to plan out a character and level them up appropriately. Sifting through massive amounts of spells was very time consuming. Also when introducing new players to the game sometimes people would gloss over when they start looking through the lists of feats, spells, etc.
  • outrider
    outrider
    Posts: 46
    I have looked briefly at the phb and the dmg. I think the game will hang together better than the previous editions over the long haul of levels. I was expecting more things for the non humans, the non-human feats are kind of slim in my opinion.

    The DMG was a nice read and I thought had some good ideas.

    My initial impressions.
  • DarthKrzysztof
    DarthKrzysztof
    Posts: 132
    I think it'll be easier on me and the group than v.3.5, once I figure out how to play it without a battlemat, or else figure out how to use a battlemat in a chat-based game. The online Game Table might be the solution, depending on the cost.

    I also need to figure out if I can use the Great Wheel cosmology with the 4E rules - I'm running a Planescape game, so that's important to me - and if not, how I can transition it to the modern cosmology.

    At least Sigil's still around, somewhere.
  • redstar
    redstar
    Posts: 119
    Hey DarthKrzystof,

    I saw your question over at Gnome Stew. Honestly, after playing a 4e game and reading through the rules, I think it's next to impossible. 95% of the abilities are not only focused on combat, but due very specific things in terms of placement (i.e. adjacent square hits, push a figure 3 squares, etc.).

    If I remember correctly, your game is online. Have you considered "MapTools":http://rptools.net/doku.php
  • FemmeLegion
    FemmeLegion
    Posts: 521
    Dear DarthKrzysztof,

    If the only trouble you have is with needing a map, allow me to suggest http://gametable.galactanet.com/ as a possible freeware solution. They personally recommend pairing it with a team-talk application like Ventrilo, but I believe it's a matter of personal preference on their part.
  • Nightwork
    Nightwork
    Posts: 1
    I just wanted to let people know that you can get the three core books from amazon as a set for something like $55. My local game store wants $35 for each book. I am ordering my bo0ks this week and we are talking about starting a new 4.0 game so I am really excited.

    ~NW
  • DarthKrzysztof
    DarthKrzysztof
    Posts: 132
    bq. I just wanted to let people know that you can get the three core books from amazon as a set for something like $55.

    I pre-ordered the set from Amazon at least three weeks in advance, then got an e-mail _the day it was supposed to ship out_ telling me that my order was gonna be delayed by at least two weeks.

    So, yeah, my FLGS got (a lot more of) my money instead.
  • Micah
    Micah
    Posts: 894
    I've been skimming the PHB, and I have to say that I'm wary. I have avoided (due to not enough time) all the previous discussion, so I was pretty much a blank slate when I opened the PHB. Having looked through, I frankly have to agree with the people complaining about "too much like WoW"

    Now, I haven't played it yet so I should keep my mouth shut, but I just found myself chuckling and shaking my head as I read through the descriptions. I was surprised that I didn't see anything like:

    bq. To activate _flurry of blows_, right click on your character icon and select _flurry of blows_. Then, wait until your power meter fully recharges before you attempt it again.

    I like CRPGs and WoW, but I also like some of the grittyness of D&D. Likewise, I enjoy both apples and oranges, but I would be sad if oranges started to taste like apples.

    Besides, chopping the -spell- ritual list down to nothing...that just ruins my day.
  • FemmeLegion
    FemmeLegion
    Posts: 521
    My friend Kevin had a really good assessment of both it and himself: "It'll take a while to get out of the 3.5 mindset".

    I know Florimel is thinking of starting up a campaign with all of us learning 4th together...he's so story intensive that I'm not entirely sure we'll learn the system. But it should still be fun. =)
  • ajb47
    ajb47
    Posts: 21
    My own view of what I have seen (yes, I have the books though I am only half way through the PHb, but I read all the previews and Desigan and Development articles) is that almost everything in 4th has a direct connection to the most vocal (or most commonly voiced) complaints about 3rd. I think they had varying degrees of success, mostly because I rarely ran into the "theoretical experiments" often discussed on the WotC forums in my games.

    I don't think my main group will be playing 4th much for a few reasons. We have a player or two who really don't like change may be the biggest. I will probably toy with it while I wait to see if other books strike my fancy, but at the moment, my biggest problem with 4th is _roles_. I really don't like the idea of them. They seem incredibly limiting to me, and reading the PHb didn't remove the bad taste from my mouth.

    A couple of other people's impressions I read seem to point in a direction I agree with -- 3rd and previous seemed more like a hobby and 4th seems more like a game. A game I'm willing to try out, because a lot of people have said it is fun to play, but not yet.

    AJ
  • photoneater
    photoneater
    Posts: 182
    Personally, I'm a fan of the system, though I will admit it is far from perfect. I've played 3 sessions so far with starter characters, and played one test session at 15th level. All in all, it seems to suit our group's playstyle very very well, and we've also managed to teach my 14 year old sister how to play- she rolled up her first character, an elf ranger, and really has enjoyed it.

    I don't mind the video game elements, but I'm the first to admit they're there. I can see how that would put some people off, but cross-media design elements don't always have to compromise the original medium too greatly, and I think 4e is a good example of that.
  • AidanDark
    AidanDark
    Posts: 56
    Been playing 4ed recently as well, GMing a new 4ed game (by the way, hi! Its been crazy the last few months).

    So far I enjoy it, it is really, really different than 3.5 so its taking some getting used to. However, maybe its me but I don't see the WoWishness of it as much as others so far. The battles are very cinematic, my players are not so afraid to try new things not outlined within the rules. Our first game (was derailed by a new player and the fact that half the group could only play for 2 hours) and the remaining two ended up going into a different area I hadn't anticipated. It was so easy to make a good encounter.

    They ended up climbing down a narrow shaft into dark catacombs beneath an abandoned keep there they triggered a defense system that they foiled and then fought off waves of zombies and skeletons unleashed from catacombs as they tried to climb up the rope and escape with some moldy old tomes they found.
  • FemmeLegion
    FemmeLegion
    Posts: 521
    One positive side effect I've seen of the new rules edition is that some people who have never gamed before but have gamer friends are a lot less afraid of getting into it now. And it's not even because the rules have been simplified. It's because everybody will be learning the system together. In the newbie's eyes, everyone is on a somewhat more equal footing. Everyone is going to make silly mistakes like forgetting to add this or that modifier. Everyone is going to get confused about how to actually adjudicate this or that action. In a very real sense, EVERYONE is a newbie again, so it's a much less intimidating situation.

    Compare that to when I walked into RPGA and Living Greyhawk. 3.5 had been out for a while, and a lot of splat books had already been published and devoured by the veteran players. And while everyone really did mean well and want to try and help with what sort of things I "should" take or not take when rolling up a given character, it was a bit overwhelming - the knowledge gap was very obvious, and I kept worrying that I would do something to "mess up" the game since I wasn't as familiar with the rules as the other players.

    I don't necessarily think that was an intended side effect of the new rules edition, but I seem to recall the official line being that the PTB wanted to make gaming more accessible, and they seem to have succeeded in an unusual way, if only to a small degree.
  • photoneater
    photoneater
    Posts: 182
    That's true, and I hadn't considered that- although I do recall making the statement that it was going to be exciting to get into a system on the ground floor for once.
  • sisren
    sisren
    Posts: 30
    My group too was wary of trying out this new system. New rules, new ways to do things.

    _"You must unlearn what you have learned."_ Indeed.

    After 2 sessions, my group decided that we prefer it over 3.5. One in particular who was never really much there for 'the game', said "This is much so much easier... Even I can play a wizard!". Gone are the days of needing a binder for a spellbook... *cries a bit*
  • FemmeLegion
    FemmeLegion
    Posts: 521
    Oh, I guess I haven't posted this thought here, guess it was just on a friend's LJ:

    I love 4th now that I've read the DMG. I have never before been confident that I could create an appropriate combat encounter in any game system, but they spell out the main formula very clearly and also throw in some formulae for varying things a bit.

    I still want to try and port that knowledge back over to 3.5 since I did invest a significant amount into those books and would like to see them get a little more mileage, but it says something to me that I'm more comfortable with the notion of writing a campaign after having merely read the rules in 4th than I ever was after 3 years of both playing and judging 3.5 stuff.
  • spidieman
    spidieman
    Posts: 38
    I like alot of 4e, characters actualy act as a team without trying. however encounters as per the book don't seem to offer as much of a challenge. though i think it might be me.
    with how great everything is, wizards still flopped with equipment (not magic items, but standard basic equipment)
    and the cost of the average item, like food and ale is in silver.
  • gull2112
    gull2112
    Posts: 9
    When the SAGA rules came out for Star Wars we read the book and immediately incorporated it into our then current Knights of the old republic game. It was such an improvement and so much fun that I immediately started trying to put together a fantasy equivalent. When I heard that WoTC was doing it for me I let out a sigh of relief and began eagerly awaiting its release. Now it is out and we have just finished up our KOTOR campaign and I have taken over the reigns as DM and you can see my campaign at OP as "The Sterling Adventure Company." We're all in our forties now and getting together is the hardest part. Our first game session is going to be October 5th! I can hardly wait!
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