Let the edition wars begin!

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Comments

  • Calivan
    Calivan
    Posts: 2
    @dlaporte7271

    I had a chance to review, watch, and received an invite to "play test" 4e. Needless to say after the first observed game session and review of the rules, I walked away from it. It was not D&D and lacked imagination in my opinion, besides I already had a subscription to World of Warcraft. Our whole group rejected 4e and as a result stayed with 3.5 and later converted to Pathfinder.

    4e is on its way out, abandoned by Hasbro. While the game system may be considered good by some, it does not have D&D feel that most would recognize. The success and popularity of 4e can be gauged by its short life span. My understanding is that all 4e product development has been cancelled in preparation for 5e. Which is their sole hope to win over their fractured community.

    This brings me from my slight rant (sorry). In your position as you look for a new game system I would review stick with 3.0 or convert to Pathfinder. Else hang on to your cash and get 5e. Other than that the OGL community is strong and has a number of interesting game systems that align with 3.x.

    Another option is to play-test 5e with your group. Signup is at http://www.dndnext.com.
  • dlaporte7271
    dlaporte7271
    Posts: 94
    Hey Calivan,

    Thanks for jumping in. I don't know if you've read all the earlier posts...but I am signed up for 5e play-test (as well as one of the other guys in the group). We will be checking out Pathfinder also. Between all the guys in my gaming group, we still own all the core books from all 3 prior editions. So I wouldn't say we're looking for a NEW game system. We're sticking with DnD at this point. We haven't gone into detail yet, but I think we'll play some 1st edition for a couple of sessions, then 2nd...maybe 3e, but I will advocate skipping 3e it and going right to Pathfinder. At this point, there are no plans to explore other systems but that could always change.

    @StephenWollet: "Change is a beast and not all of us are able to accept or enjoy it."

    Way back in the day when Palladium was first released, our group gave it a try. I think most of us liked it, I know I did. The biggest change to get over was simply the idea of stacking bonuses in positive numbers. A few of us really had a problem with the idea of a +20..."what...no negative numbers?!" Once you get attached to something it can be hard to let go, no matter how illogical. I certainly recognize that trait in myself at times.

    To anyone else who wants to join in on the discussion: In my original post I mentioned that I'd like to hear other perspectives on the older systems, specifically DnD though if you feel the need to throw in something else to make a point...feel free.

    If you have ever played the originals (even back to basic), let me know what you liked/loved about them. What were some of the things you didn't like?

    dlaporte
  • jacobkosh
    jacobkosh
    Posts: 27
    If I never have to hear another blithering autist go on about what is or isn't a "real roleplaying game" it'll be too God-damned soon.
  • twiggyleaf
    twiggyleaf
    Posts: 2,006
    First Edition will always have a very special place in my heart, since it opened my life to RPG but I wouldn't go back there now.
    Second Edition had some nice embellishments in both game design and content. I didn't like THAC0 at first but got used to it. I loved PLANESCAPE!
    I missed 3rd Edition because I stopped playing RPG for a few years.
    When I returned to RPG I was utterly bewildered with the immensity of 3.5 and all the things that had been added. It took me quite a while to get to grips with it but it certainly opened up all sorts of possibilities - perhaps too many for my liking. The proliferation of Forgotten Realms is utterly astounding but I didn't like Eberron.
    Our group was too much invested in 3.5 to change to 4e. I played a few games and it seemed OK - I actually like some of the simplified mechanics, but there were others in my group that refused to play, so we stuck with 3.5, which I still like.
    With D&Dnext just around the corner, I have lost all interest in 4e but will keep an open mind regarding D&Dnext.
    I have to say that Pathfinder would be my natural choice if I had to move on from 3.5. (They have made some excellent amendments and the PFSRD is pretty good!)


    twiggyleaf
    "Shimring - The Faces of Divinity":http://www.obsidianportal.com/campaigns/shimring
    (a multiplanar 3.5 D&D campaign)

    "I met a traveller from an antique land....."

    CotM May 2016: Mysteria: set in Wolfgang Baur’s MIDGARD.

    Previous CotM Aug 2012: Shimring: High Level Multiplanar Campaign

    Inner Council Member

  • Leonidas300
    Leonidas300
    Posts: 273
    Wow - Who let the Troll in? Bad Troll, Bad, now that you shared your "insight" go back under your bridge.
  • Leonidas300
    Leonidas300
    Posts: 273
    Hey Twigs did you ever try the Birthright Campaign Setting? - very underated back in the day, but really well done. I think at some point I stumbled on to some d20 material for it. I would have much rather had seen Birthright get a reboot, then Ebberon get the green light. If you do ever move on from 3.5 I whole-heartily think that you would like Pathfinder - The Channel Energy idea for the cleric is one of the best game rules I have ever seen, it really give the cleric some spell selection choice/casting choices that they did not have before due to having to save the slots for spont. healing or memorized healing.
  • dlaporte7271
    dlaporte7271
    Posts: 94 edited June 2012
    @twiggyleaf

    Yeah...we have all been inspired to pull out our old 1st ed stuff and look back at it. We won't end up sticking with it. It would purely be an exercise in nostalgia. The more we talk, the more we seem to be leaning towards pathfinder. I actually got the PDF and started trying to figure out how to make a conversion of my 4E level 12 Eladrin rogue, shadowblade into a pathfinder character. I'm in the process of figuring out how the ability scores translate.

    @leonidas

    Birthright was one of our favorite settings...good stuff

    dlaporte
    Post edited by dlaporte7271 on
  • twiggyleaf
    twiggyleaf
    Posts: 2,006
    I'm afraid I have never had the chance to try Birthright, Leonidas but I guess it must have been good since both you and dlaporte seem to have liked it so much.

    In my table top world we are playing 3.5 but I have been playing a pathfinder online game for the last four months and am very much enjoying it. Poison is a bit nasty and a bit too complicated, but otherwise, most things are an improvement and the additions to the basic classes are very cool.



    twiggyleaf
    "Shimring - The Faces of Divinity":http://www.obsidianportal.com/campaigns/shimring
    (a multiplanar 3.5 D&D campaign)

    "I met a traveller from an antique land....."

    CotM May 2016: Mysteria: set in Wolfgang Baur’s MIDGARD.

    Previous CotM Aug 2012: Shimring: High Level Multiplanar Campaign

    Inner Council Member

  • Black_Vulmea
    Black_Vulmea
    Posts: 277 edited June 2012
    I'm not much of a fan of _D&D_ - it was the first roleplaying game I learned, starting with the Holmes blue box back when the only 'advanced' book was the _Monster Manual_, but I usually played it just because everyone played _D&D_. I 'graduated' to 1e _AD&D_ as the books were released, but I stopped gaming in the late Eighties and never played 2e.

    I came back to gaming with 3e, but I grew frustrated with d20 games generally, which prompted my personal 'old school renaissance' as I returned to the roleplaying games I liked when I was younger.

    I opened a 4e book exactly once, at a bookstore, to read the section on skill challenges, so I could understand what others were talking about.

    If I run _D&D_ again, it will be for my kids, and I'll probably use B/X or _Labyrinth Lord_.

    Mike aka Black Vulmea
    "_Le Ballet de l'Acier_":http://www.obsidianportal.com/campaigns/le-ballet-de-l-acier - swashbuckling adventures in the age of the Three Musketeers and Captain Alatriste
    Featured Campaign of the Month - August 2011
    Post edited by Black_Vulmea on
  • jacobkosh
    jacobkosh
    Posts: 27
    "Wow – Who let the Troll in? Bad Troll, Bad, now that you shared your “insight” go back under your bridge."

    Nobody's trolling. I really do find the constant hard-on that a certain type of gamer has to demean what other people enjoy ("oh, that's not a real roleplaying game" is a good one, as is the unironic use of the term "rollplaying") one of the most stomach-churning aspects of this hobby.
  • dlaporte7271
    dlaporte7271
    Posts: 94
    Well, jacobkosh...for my part, I used the 'unironic' term and I really challenge you to point out where there was any demeaning language. I am referring to MY OWN experiences and opinions about what I have been playing. In searching for ways to describe my likes and dislikes I'm choosing those terms to distinguish between the act of immersing myself in a character and the act of rolling dice to resolve game mechanics. I found that the mechanics of 4E got in the way of immersion FOR ME..and, as it turns, out for my group. That doesn't mean someone else doesn't feel immersed when they play it and I wouldn't demean anyone who loves playing the game. By the same token, I can't for the life of me, understand the negativity around this issue. If someone feels 'demeaned' by another's expression of opinion it's on them.
  • Leonidas300
    Leonidas300
    Posts: 273 edited June 2012
    Well dlaporte that is the culture we live in today. The expression of dislike or disagreement is taken as a personal insult. Gone are the days where people could state a difference of opinion and not have it turn into a "I got my little feelings hurt because someone does not like the stuff I like or think the way I think" cryfest.

    @ jacobkosh, normally I don't respond much to a troll - (no real point in it), but since you claim you were not trolling, it leads me to wonder What was your expectation for your post? By calling people who state their opinion on what is or is not a RPG "blithering autist" are you not directly demeaning them? Perhaps you meant to be Ironic by deliberately demeaning people instead of the "supposed" demeaning of people, that many people expressing their dislike of a game system are being accused of.

    BTW - folks - Its called dislike for a reason we all have dislikes, stuff we choose not to partake in for whatever reason. I dislike suicide, ut oh... now I must of pissed off all of the people who like suicide (lucky for me, I won't have to hear from too many of them). If people cannot cope with the fact that others don't always like or care to participate in things that they do that is on them.

    Leonidas300
    Post edited by Leonidas300 on
  • jacobkosh
    jacobkosh
    Posts: 27
    Oh my god. "The culture we live in?" Are you going to start yelling at the kids on your lawn next?

    Take a second and listen to yourself.
  • Leonidas300
    Leonidas300
    Posts: 273
    @jacobkosh

    I guess when a troll's argument has been rebuked so soundly it leaves them little recourse, other than to nitpick some small phrase and try to turn that into something. Thanks for living up to all of my expectations.
  • Leonidas300
    Leonidas300
    Posts: 273
    and if I were to "yelling at the kids on my lawn" - it would be an awesome Clint Eastwood in Grand Torino type of yell.
  • magavendon
    magavendon
    Posts: 112
    Hmmm... I don't have much to comment on this (for now), but
    @ jacobkosh
    I'm pretty sure you misspelled "dammit".

    @ Leonidas
    I dislike suicide too!

    I'll come back with my ideas tomorrow probably, I'm heading home for now.

    :P
  • jacobkosh
    jacobkosh
    Posts: 27
    Okay, Leonidas. Here goes.

    "In truth, mere words cannot articulate my disgust with 4e; the system sucks so bad the books ought to be burned. I actually tried on several occasions to play that drek but to say it was only awful would be a tremendous understatement. It was essentially WOW on paper. They took all of the imagination out of the game when they “balanced” the classes. What they did to the wizard and the traditional spell casting system was out right heresey, in fact so blasphemous that it would make Beelzebub himself vomit."

    "When a system such as 4e comes along and tries to artificially level the field it often as it did with 4e it spits in the face of individualism which is the very foundation of an RPG."

    "4e took imagination to an Orwellian level of conformity, Striker, Controller and so on; give me a moment while I puke at the thought of it. (wow 15 feet looks like I win)"

    Leaving aside your fixation on bodily fluids, let's break this down: your _opinion_ is that 4e is a video game, that it is "Orwellian" and "spits in the face of individualism" (what does individualism's face look like, anyway? is it a blonde?), and that it changed everything but at the same time has no imagination (I'm really curious to hear how that works!).

    Well, my opinion is that you're a loudmouthed creep.

    I think your protestations of innocence - "it's just my opinion!" - are egregious horseshit. Nobody held a gun to your head to make you compare a game about elves to vomit and spit. Contrary to what you appear to think, people do get to comment on your opinions, and griping about "the culture" when they do is a punk's move.

    I think attitudes like yours are why so many people get turned off the RPG hobby in the first place. I had a complete stranger come up to me in the game store the other day to interrupt my quiet conversation with a friend (in the back corner of the store, no less) and shout "4e sucks!" in our faces. I honestly, 100%, no-fooling think that anyone who would seriously do that has Asperger's or some other flavor of mental illness and is in serious need of medication and therapy. But apparently on the internet that's just business as usual. What a fucking clown show.
  • Leonidas300
    Leonidas300
    Posts: 273
    @jacobkosh

    Well -first I stand by everything I said.

    Second, you have the right to your opinion about me and unlike you I will not bitch and cry about how you expressed your opinion. (nor will I lose an instant of sleep that you dislike me).

    But while we are expressing opinions, I will say that I think you are a small and frightened man, who is so wrapped up in the cancellation of an inferior, dogshit gaming system that you vent your anger on everyone who expesses a dislike of it. The system could not possibly suck because you like it, right? I must be the only person in the world who would rather play anything else than 4e. (that must be why it was cancelled) Perhaps, instead of projecting your rage from the other day on a stranger for the grevious insult (aka the truth) about your precious system, you should find the sack to have confronted the person who so offended you; but you won't do that will you?

    Also for the record your behavior and comments, concerning this subject is the king of punk ass moves.


    @FrankSirmarco and arsheesh - you guys were way right about how this is a subject that can not be discussed civilly.
  • jacobkosh
    jacobkosh
    Posts: 27
    "Well -first I stand by everything I said."

    What a brave stand to take on the internet. "I'm proud of being a walking, talking stereotype!"
  • Leonidas300
    Leonidas300
    Posts: 273
    And this boys and girls is why you should never engage in conversation with a troll; I should have known better.

    Well Troll, I am officially done responding to your childish and idiotic comments. I am certain that you will post something outrageous in order to provke more argument but you will not get it from me.
  • jacobkosh
    jacobkosh
    Posts: 27
    You really have absolutely no leg to stand on when it comes to complaining about people posting "outrageous" things. Tell us more about your vomit and spit.
  • arsheesh
    arsheesh
    Posts: 850 edited June 2012
    Okay guys, as a moderator here I'm pulling the plug on this discussion. It has de-evolved into the the mud-slinging competition that I was afraid it would.

    @Leonidas & Jacobkos - in the future guys, please refrain from name-calling and other _ad hominem_ attacks.

    -Arsheesh
    Post edited by arsheesh on
  • Texan
    Texan
    Posts: 5
    I have been playing RPGs since the early 80s as a teenager and still avid today. Along the way I have played a great many systems, some good and some bad. My opinion of 4e is the same as many others here in that it is a poor attempt at a proper RPG and is more of a miniatures game. That is fine if you are after a miniatures game although even among the realm of miniatures games it is pretty average.

    I have a general issue with WoTC changing editions so rapidly while releasing a glut of low quality books, some of which don't even look like they have been proof-read. imo that is one of the reasons people have to switched to Pathfinder. It is just a better supported product that won't be obsolete every few years and ignored by its maker.
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