5th edition dnd... Too soon?

ninjazombie42
edited March 2012 in General Discussion
Dungeons & Dragons new iteration is coming. How soon is too soon for mew editions? Has it even been 4 years since 4th was out. If 5th, or whatever they are going to call it comes now, how long before 6th comes after that? I`m all for new editions in due time, but I`m also for stability of a lasting system or the timelessness of an old "retro" system. Any thoughts?

Comments

  • ACGalaga
    ACGalaga
    Posts: 8
    Well, I dunno, didn't 3 come out in 2000? Only a few years after 3.5 came out. It was a whole new set of rule books. I had already invested in books so felt a little scammed. I guess you could still use the same books since it was essentially a similar system.

    But yeah... I guess 8 years is a little longer than 5 (assuming that 5e doesn't come out until 2013).

    Alan
    "Nabarians in Nerath":http://www.obsidianportal.com/campaigns/nabarians
  • ninjazombie42
    Posts: 57
    I jumped from 2nd to 3.5 and then to 4th. 3rd was a bit broken, so I get what they did. But 4th is so smooth and easy to run as a dm, essentials work great together with the earlier stuff and only bring more options to the table, so I don`t get why they want to do this so soon. I think it is exiting and refreashing with new editions, but when the "upgrade" at this rate, it makes me feel like I want to check out other more stable and lasting systems, I mean 4e still feels new and exiting to me..
  • ACGalaga
    ACGalaga
    Posts: 8
    If you like 4e, stick with it. There's still plenty of people that play 3.5 or previous editions. It's like the people who are stuck with an iPhone 3 after 4 comes out. Sure, a bunch of people will switch when it first comes out because they're techies, but most people will hang onto their old phone as long as it still works.

    Personally, I was also suppressed by the sudden announcement of 5e. It was just after I made an investment buying a bunch of 4e core books. I was a little surprised but, you know, it's still a little while from now. 4e works well, so I'll stick with it for a little while.
  • kenurion
    kenurion
    Posts: 80
    Definitely too soon. I'm still on 2nd edition.
  • arsheesh
    arsheesh
    Posts: 850
    As to the reasons for the switch (or at least, why so soon), I think WoTC is trying to compete with Paizo to win back it's former 3e fan-base, since so many 3e customers decided not to make the switch over, and instead opted for Paizo's revised 3e rules. As to whether or not this marketing move will be successful, well, time will tell, but for convincing argument that it won't, see "this article":http://thealexandrian.net/wordpress/10693/roleplaying-games/thought-of-the-day-5th-edition.

    Cheers,
    -Arsheesh
  • ninjazombie42
    Posts: 57 edited March 2012
    One of the reasons Paizo has been so succesfull with Pathfinder, I belive, is because it seems stable, lasting and safe, developing further on what people know. So if this new iteration is coming because WOTC wants to compete with Paizo, I`m not sure this is the right move. Well, maby if the new system is backwards compatible:p
    Post edited by ninjazombie42 on
  • KenSee
    KenSee
    Posts: 93
    As a Pathfinder DM that started DMing in Dnd 4th Ed. I am pumped. I loved 4th and I love PF I am ready for further gaming options!

    -Ken
  • Sorwen
    Posts: 64
    It is too soon since we don't know what it is like. How it turns out will say whether it remains too soon or not.

    Now from Wizards perspective it isn't too soon since sales of 4e have been lack luster to say the least and even worse since Pathfinder.
  • AnthonyDluzak
    AnthonyDluzak
    Posts: 69
    I agree with Kenurion, I'm still playing 2nd Edition as well....

    Also awesome, I find tons of books at Half Price Books for them! Finally completed my Encyclopedia Magica collection. Got all 4 books! Only took, what -- 20 years??? I could have bought it on the net sure, but I like to do my collecting the old fashioned way. Its more rewarding.
  • ninjazombie42
    Posts: 57
    Even worse since Pathfinder? Didn`t they come at about the same time? I am exited about 5th or whatever they are going to call it, and the playtesting thing is a smart move to engage the players. But is it really a smart move to pump out new editions to get customers? Who would want to invest in a new system if they don`t know how long it is going to last before the next one comes after that again? And has 4th sales really been that bad? I thought they did good with a solid system and all the stuff Chris Perkins has been doing and the different podcasts. In only 4 years there has been a hell of a lot of 4e media and publicity out there!
  • arsheesh
    arsheesh
    Posts: 850 edited March 2012
    @Ninjazombie, as far as sales go, WoTC initially received incredibly high volumes of sales on the 4e core rulebook lineup at launch (more so even than they received for the core rulebooks of 3e and 3.5e when they launched). However sales tapered off latter on, and their "Essentials" lineup was a commercial failure. Pathfinder's core rulebook by contrast sold far better than anyone had foreseen. The first print run was sold out 10 days before its release date and it is now in its 5th print run and still going strong. In point of fact, Paizo's overall RPG (and RPG products) sales has now surpassed that of WoTC, meaning that D&D is no longer the flagship of the RPG industry, Pathfinder is. This is not good news for WoTC. They still have a sizable percentage of the market share but brand loyalty is no longer what it once was.

    Further, from a marketing perspective, the aim of WoTC in engineering a new edition was two-fold: (1) To attract a new generation of gamers (and in particular, to attract a generation reared on games like Everquest, WoW and Diablo), and; (2) to reinvigorate sales for new core lineup products from existing brand loyalists. I think it is fair to say that WoTC succeeded in their first aim: they did manage to attract a whole new generation of gamers reared on video games to the pen & paper RPG. However, (a) in courting this new videogamer demographic so heavily; (b) in heavily altering so much that was familiar to both the system and existing campaign settings, and; (c) in abandoning the OGL (and lying to everyone about it beforehand), they failed miserably in their second aim. That is, while it was expected that there would be some attrition in their existing customer base (as there always has been, and likely always will be when a new edition is introduced), they underestimated just how extreme this attrition would be. Witness the mass Exodus of D&D brand loyalists to Pathfinder.

    Now the D&D/Pathfinder market is divided up roughly into three camps: (i) _The Old School Renaissance_ those (predominantly long-time gamers) that have either stuck with editions prior to 3e, and or have recently gone back to these latter additions or newer retroclones (a trend which I sense may be increasing among older generations of gamers who are nostalgic for the glory days and wish to honor the recently departed patriarchs of the industry); (ii) _The 3e/D20/Pathfinder_ crowd, which includes gamers who either love the system, didn't want to fork out the cost for a new system and/or were turned off by a, b, or c above and so chose not to switch over, and; (iii) _The 4e Crowd_, which consists largely of a new generation of gamer, with a more modest base of more experienced gamers from previous editions.

    What WoTC is hoping to do with 5e, is to bridge the divide between these different schools of thought and bring the wandering sheep back into the fold. Those at Wizbro now perceive that by exclusively courting the youth generation of video-gamers they alienated many long time fans. They now hope to reclaim the trust of former fans by offering them a seat at the round table in designing the newest edition, "an edition for all walks of life!". However ninjazombie, as you pointed out it may be that the timing of this new launch is too soon. Further, it is unlikely that 5e will manage to make good on its vision of crafting a game that will please all the camps. Further, WoTC no longer has the good will they did back in 2008, so the new launch has got to make good on pleasing enough of their former customers to make up for the impending fallout of a (potentially larger) portion of their current 4e customer base. Can they do it? Guess we'll have to wait and see.

    Cheers,
    -Arsheesh
    Post edited by arsheesh on
  • DarkMagus
    DarkMagus
    Posts: 425
    That's a very interesting article Arsh, thanks for sharing!
  • twiggyleaf
    twiggyleaf
    Posts: 2,004
    I'm part of the 3.5/Pathfinder schism. I may be open to 5th edition, but what it has already done for me is close the door to 4e. I bought the 4e core books when they came out, but others I was playing with felt very strongly that they would not be going in that direction, so we never really got to try it out. I have always been ready to take up 4e whenever the opportunity arose - until now! I think the article succinctly highlights this problem and I don't have much faith in there being any great unity in the future edition. I'll try and keep an open mind though.

    "I met a traveller from an antique land....."

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  • ninjazombie42
    Posts: 57 edited March 2012
    4e is still a great system! Smoother and simpler and more easy to run than 2nd and 3.5, the two other dnd systems I used to play. So you can still give it a try! Easy to do a quick oneshot without a bunch of unnecessary rules that don`t make much sense get in the way. It is easy to reskin monsters and races and classes and powers if you want or to adjust adventures and to build encounters. you don`t have to look up rules all the time, so there is lots of time for fun roleplaying. And I have never had as much fun building unique characters. Give it a go!
    Post edited by ninjazombie42 on
  • magavendon
    magavendon
    Posts: 112
    I wanna play a new edition!
  • arsheesh
    arsheesh
    Posts: 850
    @DarkMagus - glad you enjoyed it. I've found Justin Alexander's articles (he's got an assortment of other good articles) to be very insightful overall.

    Cheers,
    -Arsheesh
  • Tanarus
    Tanarus
    Posts: 4
    I've got to say that I enjoyed 3.5 and 3.5 variants (Pathfinder, Iron Heroes, etc) far better than 4ed. I gave 4th ed a shot, I really did, it was fun, but it didn't grab me like other editions have. It was a simplistic hack n' slash paper and pencil MMO in my own opinion. I can see the draw for newer players, it was an easy system to learn, but it went too far. I enjoy complexity, yes I even balked at the removal of THAC0 in 3ed, lol, saying it helped weed out the weak.I bought many 4th ed books (the three core boxed set plus the forgotten realms campaign setting books. They didn't playtest the game enough and should have taken the hint from pathfinder, which went through huge amounts of revisions and corrections with the players help to make the sleek, refined game that it is. WoTC said they'd do the same for 5th ed and I am... hopeful. Besides, Monte Cook is heading up the design team and I trust his skills and instincts, he's a good man and great player.
  • RobertBenton
    RobertBenton
    Posts: 46
    Something that might help the dev team on 5th would be, well, apps. A vast majority of people I know (both lower and middle class) have at least 1 iPhone/Android or tablet. I personally don't; however, I think character management, power cards, dice and even other elements such as maps and figures could be easily placed into an interactive medium through apps. It would simplify things for some people, it wouldn't be entirely neccessary, and it is still marketable. It's a different age than it was and for a more digitally focused set of consumers this would be a way for new customers to be introduced to D&D. That added to the fact that with such things, D&D would be available to groups of core friends that are a long distance away. I don't know, food for thought. As for is it too soon, I don't know. I'm still trying to sink into 4. so,...... maybe?
  • ninjazombie42
    Posts: 57
    Thac0 sucked... And level limits and class restrictions for races and all the unnecessary rules about weather and transport and all the stuff that removes the fun and joy of roleplaying. Both our 2nd and 3.5 games(we had a lot of fun with both) were heavily houseruled, did not need to do that with 4e, it gave you freedom and options and more customizable flavour and time for roleplaying and an element of more tactics in combat(if you like complexity). I have never gotten the MMO argument at all, that started out as a silly rumour before release and is mostly still chanted by people who never tried 4e.
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