Revealing NPCs Stats - An OP Incentive?

KMcCollam
KMcCollam
edited December 2011 in General Discussion
I've been tossing around an idea for a while now, and I think I'm going to finally implement. I've had subpar involvement from my players on OP recently, and normal incentives (Hero Points, etc.) don't seem to be working. My new idea is this: every so often (a week or so, maybe) I'm going to upload the stats to an NPC. Not a bio, or description (which are already up) but their actual nuts-and-bolts game mechanics, something I don't let my players usually see. Obviously, I won't post major, recurring villians stats, but my players often pester me about the stats of allies or defeated enemies (how many hit points did it have? How is her Will save so high?). I'm going to begin with a good NPC friend of the PCs who died last session.

Has anyone ever tried this? If you haven't, then please steal it if you like it, and if you have, tell me how it went. Even if you haven't, tell me your opinions on it. Do you think it will work? Would it motivate you? Any other comments/observations? (For example: this works well for Pathfinder, what my group is playing at the moment, but wouldn't work on less crunchy systems). Let me know!

Comments

  • HurstGM
    HurstGM
    Posts: 205
    Good luck Im facing the same problem. Stats did not work for me in the past, but it might be diffrent with your players
  • wolfhound
    wolfhound
    Posts: 354
    Is this for Heroes of the Guild?

    Since I can't see the campaign, I'm not entirely sure how best to give advice.

    However conceptually speaking, yes the more you reward player's for logging on and "doing something" on the wiki it seems to eventually spawn participation.

    Training?
    Do you meet together physically or all online?
    - If face-to-face, does someone in your group have a laptop? I found that after I took the time to actually show my players around the Wiki one night it boosted participation in some of the less active ones.

    Loot Picking?
    Taking your idea of posting NPC stats and running with it, you might even post the treasure for an upcoming encounter and give the players options. I.E. those of you that reply on page X by day Y can select which options go into the treasure award.

    The Snot-Nosed Caveat
    Of course in my group, many of my players are parents of young kids.... no amount of enticement will ever get them to participate except once in a blue moon. Usually for them, a phone call or IM to gather data... and then I have to create the relevant page/pages myself.
  • ketherian
    ketherian
    Posts: 203
    I like this idea Vantes.
    Granted, it is more work for the GM, but it will grow your website with interesting information that may come into play later.
    I think it should be expanded - change the information up a bit from time to time. Sometimes you can ask folk for their preference in treasures, sometimes provide answers to questions asked last game (not just hit points, but how did a trap work, or even showing the map layout for the dungeon explored thus far). Every little bit might help.

    Then again, some folk just won't participate. Timing, other obligations, whatever - don't hold it against them. If it's not fun for them, they're just not going to do it.
  • Pils
    Pils
    Posts: 149
    I already show a little stats of my campaign NPCs, mainly friendly one (and/or companions, who are NPCs played by the players) or dead enemies.
    You can look at them in "my campaign":http://www.obsidianportal.com/campaign/dark-sun-a-trova/npc-tracker/carac.
    This could be an additional motivation for your players to go to the OP page, but it's hard to maintain an interest every week or month.

    Maybe you could try to conceal vitals informations and clues for the next adventure in your latest updates.
    Personally, I've tried to impose my players to make a comment in the latest adventure log to leveling, or to reward them every time they take part in the forum section.

    I use the forum to play "mini-episode":http://www.obsidianportal.com/campaigns/dark-sun-a-trova/forum/01-visite-des-ruines-de-kalidnay between the adventures, and think I begin to post a "quiz":http://www.obsidianportal.com/campaigns/dark-sun-a-trova/forum/quizz- after each game.

    As Ketherian & Wolfhound have said, we play for the pleasure, but it's time consuming...

    -Pils

    Dark Sun ● La Décade des Héros : Face the Fire of the Dark Sun... a World ravaged by Sorcery! (CotM - Dec 2012)

    Les Royaumes Oubliés : A D&D 5e old school style Forgotten Realms campaign!

    (And I'm so soooorry for my poor english...)

  • GamingMegaverse
    GamingMegaverse
    Posts: 2,998
    I may have to write an article on how to get players involved.
    First, before the start of a game, set the ground rules. If someone does not want to participate, they do not play.
    Second, after the first game, make sure the rules are clear and they are participating.
    Third, after 2nd game, threaten to drop anyone that is not participating, and do if they do not before the 3rd game.
    Sounds harsh, but I have 7, soon to be 8, players that all write adventure logs, give input on game direction, wrote extensive player bios, and use the site. I reward by giving xp, and occasional gifts of a +4 to rolls for perfect attendance.
    killervp
    "A God...Rebuilt":http://www.obsidianportal.com/campaigns/a-god-rebuilt
    Duskreign's "COTM for November 2011":http://www.obsidianportal.com/campaigns/wyrmshadow/wiki_pages/112011

    Just trying to help out.

  • KMcCollam
    KMcCollam
    Posts: 9
    HurstGM: I'm sorry it didn't work for you; I hope you find something else that does.

    Wolfhound: I've done training before, and I think that's a very effective method. I think a lot of people are intimidated by OP at first, and so showing them how it works does seem to help them make the first step. Now your treasure idea, I really like that. I think that would great motivation for gamist players (as mine are sometimes known to be). The more methods applied, the more likely they are to get on.

    Ketherian: Thanks! Yeah, it would be more work for some GMs, but I type up my NPCs on the computer anyways, so I can just copy paste. I like your examples, I will mix it up. And I understand what you mean about some players not wanting to play. I should have clarified: I'm okay with them not using OP. But I'd like something for those who choose to.

    Pils: Those are some interesting examples as well, I may implement them as well.

    killervp: That seems to be a very effective method, but I don't think it would work for my group or me. I use OP as a periphery tool; it's not important enough for me to drop players on a basis of their participation.



    Thanks for the feedback guys. You've got some good ideas.
  • DamienMaster
    DamienMaster
    Posts: 34
    My entire campaign Adventure Log is player created... It does take a bit of wrangling but I do have at least one entry for every session.

    Like many GMs on OP, I offered a 'reward'; a "Destiny Point":http://www.obsidianportal.com/campaign/roguetraders/wikis/house-rules which in game terms (for those of you familiar with D6) was a single, one session only, Character point.
    However whilst my players DID contribute, I felt like I was badgering them and strangely... They often wouldn't spend it!
    So I decided to 'up the ante' and expanded what a Destiny Point could do- Actually 'bending the rules'.
    I found that suddenly both my players were a bit more enthusiastic AND... They were actually really excited about using them!
    The advantages were carefully designed so as not to cause any imbalances but they do give the players a lot more flexibility.

    All I can say is that if you want them involved, up the stakes- It worked for me!

    On the subject of revealing 'behind the scenes' info, whilst I don't upload stats on "my site":http://www.obsidianportal.com/campaigns/roguetraders but I do actually print my 'notes' for each NPC.

    I don't reveal any 'secrets' but I do 'reveal' the basics of their personality... It occurred to me that this info we GM's generally keep guarded behind the screen, can actually help us present a more complete character.
    If the players read the NPC entry, my job 'acting' the part is already half done, the player hopefully fills the gaps of my 'performance' with what they read in the Character section... Hopefully!

    I say if you want a good OP site then you have to put out in equal measure.
  • wolfhound
    wolfhound
    Posts: 354 edited December 2011
    I actually asked some of my players what brings them to "Dresden Files: Dallas":http://www.obsidianportal.com/campaigns/dfd and actually participate and about 60/40 it was the bribery (the point for doing the webisode writeup) and 40% was because I put up the stats and they want to know what to expect from potential opposition. So maybe by being a little less guarded with "top secret GM notes" it'll helps drive your players to the wiki.

    YMMV
    Post edited by wolfhound on
  • malcolypse
    malcolypse
    Posts: 10 edited December 2011
    I'm planning on making my Adventure Log for Shattered Oz mostly player created. I intend to give my players a Journey Book (completely and shamelessly stolen from the Sword of Truth series of books and the TV show) to keep in touch with someone they'll hopefully assume is the Scarecrow, and who will give them suggestions on where they should go and what they should do. Also, this distant benefactor will ask that they update the book at least once a week (which will be the Adventure Log, and I'll probably put in my two cents, too, but mostly I want to see what the characters are getting from the game).

    A previous game master did this (The game was set in the distant past of the Star Wars Universe, using the D6 system)for a game I played in. One player was a Jedi Master and the rest of the party were his padawans. The master required that we keep a journal of our adventures and training so that he could better relate his experiences in Jedi training to the Council. The GM would occasionally collect the composition notebooks that he'd supplied us to use as journals and give extra character points based on what he read. I loved it, and have intended to incorporate it into a game for years now.

    One particularly fun part of that game was the end, when I asked the GM to let me look at all the journals. I compared and contrasted them and they had some wildly different takes on the same events.

    I'll either start a rotation and put a different character in charge of upkeep every session, or I'll ask all the players to send me one and post up the best as the Adventure Log. Maybe I should have the characters decide who's in charge of the book, and let them have a record keeper. I don't know, but I definitely want my players to participate in OP. I'm currently trying to get them to work out character backgrounds beyond a couple sentences and post them for me, so I can start working their stories into the game and get a sampling of their interest in keeping OP updated.

    So far, not so much as I'd hoped.
    Post edited by malcolypse on
  • KMcCollam
    KMcCollam
    Posts: 9
    @Damien- You bring up a good point- if the players know the motivations of an NPC, that really helps them "get" the character and as a result makes the NPC more memorable. Brilliant.

    @wolfhoud- That's interesting to hear from our current COTM. I revealed my intentions to do this at our last game Sunday, and it has certainly caused a great deal of interest in the sight, if very few log-ins. I let the players vote on which NPC they'd like to see, and now it seems like everytime they're together they debate who would be best to see- the giant monk or the nemesis who nearly creamed them. I love it!

    @malcolypse- That's really neat! I love the idea of them all keeping separate notebooks, and then comparing entries. Ingenious! I do something that has a similar effect, where I have questionnaires for the PCs to fill out after our game weekly, and one of the questions is always "What has happened so far?" or "What happened today?". It's a riot to get everyone's different takes on things. I really really like your idea, but I wonder if my players wouldn't feel like it was homework and not do it. I'll have to ask them next time.

    Once again, thanks everyone!
  • AnthonyDluzak
    AnthonyDluzak
    Posts: 69
    I thought about putting in an "Easter egg" hunt to try and get participation up on visiting my site on OP from my players....

    Tell them, the one who comes to the game session with the most finds wins something cool. Like a magic items, or maybe a "soul rock" (see my wiki on game system for explanation)...

    The Easter egg hunt would basically be in the text, a phrase or something... Each one unique, sprinkled all through the site.

    Haven't done it yet though.
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