Hello + How do you get more participation from your players?

dagob
dagob
edited March 2011 in Campaign Portal Building
Hello all,

I am a DM for a D&D 4th edition group and I am new to obsidian portal. Reading through some of the campaigns I have seen on this site, I have been impressed with the level of player participation, i.e. writing and updating character logs, bios and 'campfire talk'. I made a wiki for our campaign on wikia.com before I knew this website existed. I put a lot of work into it and was frustrated with the lack of participation from my players.

I created a log with a summary of what happened every session along with a preview of what was going to happen next session, with the hope that my players would go to the site to get a heads up on what might happen, and then read the log so that they may actually remember what they did last session. I also tried giving players who miss a session an EXP reward for coming up with a good story of what their character was doing during the missed session, hoping that that would be another incentive to keep up with what was going on.

I want the campaign to be everyone's story and not just what I want it to be, so I don't want to deliver ultimatums. Do you guys have any tips or suggestions? Also if you are taking the time to respond to this, I would also be interested to know what your opinion is of the D&D 4th ed. character creator on the wizards website.

Thank you,
dagob

Comments

  • arsheesh
    arsheesh
    Posts: 850 edited March 2011
    Hello there Dagob, welcome to the Portal!

    Well you've just hit upon one of the most vexing issues of running a site here at the OP. I've been here for over a year now, have run two campaign sites through the Portal and have browsed literally hundreds of others and in my experience, players who regularly contribute to their DM's campaign site are quite rare. I have run into some really motivated players who do actively participate in their campaign site, but these seem to me to be the exception rather than the norm. There was actually a "discussion thread":http://forums.obsidianportal.com/comments.php?DiscussionID=1231&page=1#Item_48 about this very topic some time ago that might offer you some ideas.

    As for myself, I use "Prestige Points":http://www.obsidianportal.com/campaign/age-of-legends/wikis/prestige-points to encourage my players to contribute to our Campaign Sites. In essence this is a point based system similar to Action Points, but more elaborate. Players earn points for activities such as: keeping a character journal, writing an interesting back-story and creating NPCs related to that backs-story, etc. They can then use these points to gain either short term or long term benefits (e.g.
    Post edited by arsheesh on
  • gaaran
    gaaran
    Posts: 740
    I have also adopted Arsheesh's prestige point system, and have met with some success. However, I've found that some players just aren't interested, and you have to be okay with that too. At first I started making my wiki site for my personal use, but then I started really fleshing it out and wanted to encourage the players to help out. When they didn't, or said they would and fell short, I found myself getting upset with them. This wasn't okay, it was going to ruin my game. I had to remind myself that I've invested much more time and energy into this than they needed, or even wanted. It's not like they asked for a comprehensive wiki and then after a while stopped using it. I did this on my own, and if they benefit great, but I can't expect my players to care as much as I do.

    Sorry that was kind of a rant... I guess my point is, use positive reinforcement to get them involved, and if they aren't interested in doing the work outside of the game that's okay too. I had a couple players with 10-15 prestige points at one point, and another with 0. This gave the players that were participating out of game a little edge, but didn't hinder the other. Also, if they don't feel like adding to the story in their own ways, then you shouldn't really feel bad about determining where the story goes, because that's probably what they want.

    Also, welcome to the Portal :)
  • ChainsawXIV
    ChainsawXIV
    Posts: 530 edited March 2011
    Arsheesh and Gaaran are right of course, that it's in large part about the players. Giving them incentives is good, but it will only help get the players who want to participate out of their idle state. It won't engage folks who don't already want to be involved. It's also important to allow room for participation in your game though.

    For example, when I ran "Sanction of the Athar":http://www.obsidianportal.com/campaigns/sotfa, there was virtually no participation from the players. Conversely however, "Sins of the First Age":http://www.obsidianportal.com/campaigns/sotfa, which shares a number of the same players, has loads of great input. The key differences? Sins includes lots of opportunities for us players to elaborate on the story, and lots of details we need to keep track of (our storyteller is the one who contributes the least to the wiki). People are much more likely to contribute new stuff than recap things they experienced in person.

    Also: Welcome!
    Post edited by ChainsawXIV on
  • Poutine_Paladin
    Poutine_Paladin
    Posts: 285
    Once again I find myself echoing my esteemed colleagues at OP. Encouraging sometimes works, rewarding for participation works even better, but demanding won't work at all, and will actually hurt both the site and your relationship with your players.

    I personally enjoy participating in the sites I'm involved in (and the "prestige points" concept in one of them, though I am yet to "burn" any points in gameplay, is a nice touch) but those who don't have the time or interest in engaging in that aspect of the game shouldn't be punished if it's just not their thing.

    Welcome to the site, and we'll see you around the forums. I think you should already be able to see that we're pretty engaging here with questions/answers/overall support, so don't hesitate to chime in.
  • FrankSirmarco
    FrankSirmarco
    Posts: 250
    For the sake of argument, I'll disagree with my peers. I think you should force your players to contribute to the site with brow-beating, taunting, and nonstop insults. If they still don't contribute to the site, have an NPC kill their character in their sleep.

    Welcome to the site, dagob! And just so you know, I agree with everything said by my fellow OPites...
  • PartyPanda
    PartyPanda
    Posts: 33
    Welcome!

    And like many other OPites I feel your pain. I put in quite bit of work to the site but its very difficult to get my players engaged. My players REALLY enjoy what I put up on here, they've actually expressed disappointment when I haven't done an update after a session, but getting them to do it is like pulling teeth.

    One way I got them to at least give be a character background on the site was to actively incorporate elements of character backgrounds into the story as soon as they gave them too me. Fate chips haven't been much of an incentive sadly. I might have to resort to bribing with pizza, hah!
  • DarkMagus
    DarkMagus
    Posts: 425
    Welcome!

    I have yet to get my players to be active on the site. It was a feat just to get them to sign up and join the campaign... :( I want to try to use something like Prestige Points in this upcoming game to see if I can get them even just slightly involved. Good luck Dagob!
  • VentureSix
    VentureSix
    Posts: 30
    I've also stolen the Prestige Point system for my campaign. My players seem excited about it, but we'll see how it goes.

    The general rule I've alway gone by for anything online, whether my Facebook page, my website, guild forums, etc... is that everyone else will never be as invested as I am. :)
  • gaaran
    gaaran
    Posts: 740
    Yeah, that's basically what it boils down to VS. Once you realize that fact, it makes it much easier to take when other people aren't as participatory as you'd like.
  • Dungeon_Master_Loki
    Dungeon_Master_Loki
    Posts: 358
    I've always been very lucky with Player participation (just look at all the art on the Spelljoined Campaign). I attribute part of that to the great players I've got and part to the fact that I encourage players to help build the universe with me.

    I've always had XP awards for Journals, art, etc. which I've recently codified on the wiki using what seems to be the standard acronym on OP: SEX

    http://www.obsidianportal.com/campaign/spelljoined/wikis/sex

    Game Designer, Pro GM, multiple ENnie Award winner

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  • JonathonVolkmer
    JonathonVolkmer
    Posts: 114
    I'd like to second, third, and possibly fourth what my fellow Portatoes have already said.

    My players don't have the same levels of free time combined with ready access to a computer as I do (I work in front of a computer, and my actions are largely un-policed, so no one actually knows how little time this job requires of me), and might not be as motivated to contribute as I am even if they did.

    My current experiments mostly center on them submitting things to me in writing (write-ups, background info, etc.) for me to post up for everyone to see. I reward these submissions either with minor experience bumps or single-use in-game rewards.

    Good luck, dagob, and welcome to the Portal!
  • Voaraghamanthar
    Voaraghamanthar
    Posts: 5
    Pfssh.

    I wish I could just get players. The Borrog Warriors Campaign is ready to go and I'd like to play online using D20Pro. Just Google d20pro if you are not familiar with it.
  • Duskreign
    Duskreign
    Posts: 1,085
    DMLoki, we can't see that page because your permissions are set to make it visible only to those playing in the campaign.
  • dagob
    dagob
    Posts: 2
    Thank you for your warm welcomes and ideas everyone!

    Arsheesh, I really like your prestige point system and I think I will discuss using it with my players. I usually run low magic campaigns, that is with very few or no magic items, and just give the players inherent bonuses. So far we have all mostly liked that because it simplifies things, but I was thinking that they could buy magic items with their prestige points, with options for other rewards too. That way, if I have a player or two that do not earn prestige points, I can give them inherent bonuses instead. I was thinking that that would make their characters less cool but not left underpowered compared to the other characters with magic items.

    Another thing I have tried with some success is doing a role-playing vignette at the start of each session where the players role play an important scene from one of the characters past. I tried to reward one of my players who wrote a good bio for their character by focusing on his story. I wonder though if focusing on a players character who has a weak bio might encourage or interest them to create a more in depth story....

    What do you guys think?

    Also, how many of you use the wizards character creator and how many of you just use pencil and paper?
  • FemmeLegion
    FemmeLegion
    Posts: 521
    You might also point out some of the more simple and concrete benefits they might derive from maintaining portions of the site, as I have done here: http://www.obsidianportal.com/campaign/in-vitro/wikis/gaming-frequency
  • twiggyleaf
    twiggyleaf
    Posts: 2,011
    Hi Dagob and welcome to OP.

    Like most of the others here, I was hoping for more player involvement. I do get some though, but others before me are right - some players just DON'T want to be involved and you have to be OK with that. I also instituted the Prestige Point system and this works to an extent. But at least I do get some player involvement on the Forums every now and again, and some have even updated their characters with one of the 3.5 Dynamic Character Sheets, so I can't really complain.

    One has to be happy for any player involvement and just don't get upset when it is less than you would like. That's life!

    "I met a traveller from an antique land....."

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  • NikMak
    NikMak
    Posts: 379
    ok, taking a leaf out of several peoples websites, notabely wolfhound as usual, im trying to foster more in player particiaption in the web site.

    can some of you spare a moment to let me know if my proposed rewards are in right ball park? they feel very generous to me, but I woudl like feed back from you all to compare it with

    each pennant represents a 'bene' here

    https://the-great-pendragon.obsidianportal.com/wikis/the-players

    and the more in depth explanation of rewards are here

    https://the-great-pendragon.obsidianportal.com/wikis/in-game-rewards
  • GamingMegaverse
    GamingMegaverse
    Posts: 3,001
    If it works for you, you are in the right ballpark! The main thing is creating benefits that work for you and your players!
    There is more discussion on this topic "here":http://forums.obsidianportal.com/comments.php?DiscussionID=1231

    Just trying to help out.

  • twiggyleaf
    twiggyleaf
    Posts: 2,011
    NikMak

    I agree with KVP. Your rewards seem cool. Don't worry about being over generous, but if you find that some enterprising player is making a monster of his character contributing too much to the site (sic), then implement a limitation. Contributing too much.....? LOL! The very thought of it.....

    twiggyleaf
    CURRENT CAMPAIGN: "Mysteria":http://www.obsidianportal.com/campaigns/mysteria - set in Wolfgang Baur’s MIDGARD.
    Previous CotM Aug 2012: "Shimring":http://www.obsidianportal.com/campaigns/shimring

    "I met a traveller from an antique land....."

    CotM May 2016: Mysteria: set in Wolfgang Baur’s MIDGARD.

    Previous CotM Aug 2012: Shimring: High Level Multiplanar Campaign

    Inner Council Member

  • NikMak
    NikMak
    Posts: 379 edited March 2015
    thanks for the links to the other threads ( 'participation' as a search term only found this one) ...

    OK, I will hold my nerve and see how the rewards system pans out: Then we get to find out if the rest of the party get motivated or de-motivated, as Stealth and Ramsey start racking up the points for the work they are doing already!
    Post edited by NikMak on
  • Abersade
    Abersade
    Posts: 422
    Nikmak,

    I agree with killervp and twiggyleaf, your rewards look fine. I have gone with a system that I have seen here on a few other games adapted heavily for my campaign, despite the rewards being fairly generous I still have one player that doesn't usually take the bait. Not everyone participates, it's a sad fact of life for us GMs. My system (for others looking at this thread for inspiration) is here. "RP Points":https://rise-of-the-durnskald.obsidianportal.com/wikis/rp-points

    -Abersade
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