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The Homebrew Validity
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Side A here has a valid point. Sometimes after years and years of playing a game, a group can evolve its own set of rules. At a core there is the same basic mechanic as their base system but that candy coating isn't the same anymore.
Side B has a valid point as well. You can always opt to not select a system. Its akin to selecting "Homebrew" but it just doesn't use words.
The question become, what was the original intent behind the combo box to select Game System? One of the standard response is for search-ability and site organization. The upside to having a "Homebrew" option is it removes any custom creations for the system purists... the down side is that it removes any custom creations for the rest of us.
Which brings me to the reason I posted this topic. For discussion, in one place. In hopes of solving this issue. One of the major stumbling blocks we've had thus far is people citing examples. It tends to obfuscate your meaning so I ask, politely, that you refrain from talking in specific examples. Try to use generics that everyone can relate to.
I'm neither for or against the Homebrew option, I just want to see this issue addressed fully and put to bed. :D
I'm with Jonrgrover here, there is a Side C - the playing group has created their own rule system from scratch.
I don't see this as a massive debate or some such thing. Just add Homebrew or Custom to the list. Shouldn't take that much work I'd imagine. Most people are happy to choose their specific system (4th edition / Deadlands) and could care less about a Custom option. Others, like my playing group, need it. If it becomes a problem where far too many campaigns pick it as default (which I highly doubt), then address the issue when it comes up.
We're not asking for the world. Just a text field to read something akin to "Homebrew/Custom" for people to search by. We can write all sorts of posts about custom settings vs custom rulesets vs house rules vs % of custom rules vs commercial products vs variants and offshoots and on and on, but it really boils down to this:
There are some of us that would like a "Homebrew/Custom" option, please. Thank you.
Tom / Doc4
(and if you want more specifics as to why my campaign should fall under that, please see the sticky at the top of this forum for my post two pages from the last)
bq. I have nearly caved to all requests to all systems. It has turned out to be much harder than I anticipated to make the system vs setting vs flavor vs sub-system distinction that seemed all to clear to me when all I played was D&D 3.5, 4e, Champions, and Warhammer.
I suppose I’ll have to sit down and re-evaluate what exactly the goal of the whole “game system” option is. Until I get a chance, though, please bear with me!
So it looks like there is some decisions made to what the intent of that option is. We might see an official rational reason for why some games are included and others aren't. Personally, I find the list to be arbitrary as hell right now. Some selections are listed that are merely variants on a system while others are simply different settings while some still are different systems.
bq. My reasoning on this issue is that there are so many systems out there, both homebrewed and published, that having an “Other” option available as a catch all is useful so they can label their games as something with out waiting for a support request to go through.
An "Other" option isn't a bad idea actually. Of course, the counter-point to that is that you are allowed to simply not select a system. I'd prefer an Other to a non-selection because that way it at least feels like I'm trying to designate a system.
bq. I’m working on a complete home-brew system. In other words it is not based on any existing system. I might be the only one however it would be nice to be able to designate such systems as ‘complete home-brew’ and have another designation for ‘partial home-brew’, or perhaps ‘10% home-brew’, ‘25% home-brew’, ‘50% home-brew’, and ‘100% home-brew’. Thanks.
I think that might end up being a little convoluted and arbitrary. 25% Homebrew and 75% what? The difference between Homebrew/D&D or Homebrew/Savage Worlds is massive. As for those of us writing our own systems (you're not alone, my podcast is actually working on writing its own system as well) maybe a good option would be the "Other" suggested by EpeeGnome or an "Original" option to designate a difference between "I wrote this myself" and "My system isn't listed"
bq. I love this quote “refrain from talking in specific examples. Try to use generics”. By itself, it’s the opposite of what I do day to day. :)
Examples are great and can be very useful... except every time I see them in relation to this topic its a three page rant about why someone wrote their own system and they need special treatment. Nothing that pertains to the topic at hand. Hence my request. :D
bq. I don’t see this as a massive debate or some such thing. Just add Homebrew or Custom to the list. Shouldn’t take that much work I’d imagine. Most people are happy to choose their specific system (4th edition / Deadlands) and could care less about a Custom option. Others, like my playing group, need it. If it becomes a problem where far too many campaigns pick it as default (which I highly doubt), then address the issue when it comes up.
I don't think its a massive debate, but its one that keeps cropping up here over and over. Some finality to the topic would just be nice. (Read: I'm sick of hearing about it some I'm trying to do something more active then just asking/begging/whining about it)
As I mentioned before, I don't really care if there is another option presented. I'm indifferent about adding a Custom/Homebrew/Other/Whatever option, but I think there are some really valid points on why there should be one. I'd really like to get them all collected in one place so that our beautiful hosts can read over them and make a logical, informed decision.
It sounds to me that what you *really* want to know is whether the game system is something I can grok if I know the source system, in the case of a house ruled system, or something I won't be able to relate to at all because it's not based on any published game system. If you house rule the heck out of, say, Call of Cthulhu, I can still understand the rules set, and use your resources, so long as the house rules are spelled out. But if you've come up with your own Horror RPG, I can't use those resources (well, not the game stat based ones anyway) without knowledge of your rules set.
In both cases, what it boils down to is this: what unpublished rules are in use for this campaign? This is a property of ALL games, and is of use in evaluating other peoples' games AND is handy for players in the campaign - especially players new to the group. Even if the group plays strictly by published rules, knowing this fact is important.
So, it seems to me that one possibility is a canonical wiki page for each campaign which acts as a starting point for house/custom rules. Then, you just let people select the base system (or "Homebrew") and then the amount of content on that custom rules page quickly informs any would-be player or browser what they're dealing with. For groups that have little or no house rules, the page is very short. For groups that have a heavily modified rules set, the page is long. For groups that use a homebrew system, it could be very long, consisting essentially of their core rules set.
I don't know about you, but I'd be very interested to browse through a selection of house rules for the systems I referee, and new rules sets from homebrew campaigns. Having a canonical page for this would allow for this functionality, and would give a new spin on how to browse campaigns: by house rules.