Session 0

ketherian

Hi all.

So, in surfing the net (as I am want to do), I came across a new gaming term: "Session 0".
It took a bit of digging, but this seems to be the new nomenclature for a "Pre-game" (as we old foggies called it). I've always done a pre-game with my campaigns. I try to gather the players together, get them enough information to understand the world they'll be playing in and help them figure out how the party fits together and in the world. I'm rather surprised this is treated as a new idea (by some of the article's I've read at least) and find it even stranger that some seem to see this as a way to limit player's potential characters.

So, I'm curious. Do you run a Session 0?
Can it be lethal (a la old-school Traveller)?
What are your goals as a GM in a Session 0?
As a player, have you ever been through a Session 0? If so, what was your opinion of it.

---
Ketherian
"Signs & Portents":http://swtwc.obsidianportal.com

Tau_Cetacean

honestly have never heard either term before... but in times past would do something similar, one-on-one character creation sessions (especially like the "20 questions" approach in Shadowrun to flesh our character stories... at least in 2nd ed, and I assume in other editions well)

part of my motivation for using a site like Obsidian Portal is to give players a "pre-game" orientation / reading assignment, rather than spend a lot of time going over the setting at the start of the first session

as life has progressed, you get out of college, it's harder to schedule game sessions... have tended towards char-gen being a pre-game homework assignment for the players (though this turned out to be somewhat disastrous in the last game I ran... a D&D one-shot for three new players... one guy made a chaotic evil character, ignoring my advice... and his girlfriend made a hermaphrodite character, which had no real effect on game-play, but was a random thing to have come up half-way through the first session... suffice to say... lesson re-learned, going back to 1-on-1 character generation / review sessions)

not that familiar with Traveller - so.... out of morbid curiosity, how exactly can pre-game sessions be lethal in that system?

ketherian

Hi Tau_Cetacean.

I admit, a lot of the games I'm in the Session 0 is either one-on-one or (more likely) by email/chat these days. And the first group meet-up I tend to have with gamers (as a GM or PC); there's not always a lot of gaming happening. It's more of a meet-and-greet than a gaming session unless the group is really serious about it all.

Traveller was notorious for killing player-characters in the pregame. There were tables and tables that randomly generated stuff for your background (wealth, skills, adventures, ...). And in these adventures (in which you got skills, treasure and more) you could die. Frankly, it was a precursor to the Central Casting (from Task Force Games, (C) 1988) that I adore. So the adventures (whether you role-played them or just took the table results) ideally generated an incredibly rich and detailed background--assuming you survived.

Your previous game sounds rough. How long did it run?

--
Ketherian
"Signs & Portents":https://swtwc.obsidianportal.com

weasel0

Yeah, Traveller and the original HackMaster had that in common though in HM, it only occurred if you used the class books for their specific "Priors and Particulars" and I know it happened in the fighter's book...a few ways actually. Very rare was a real battle death, mostly in training was accidents with catapults....nope trebuchet accident. Occasionally a crafty player would spend re-rolls to suicide the char in this manner if stats were so wrong for what they wanted to play or just horrible in general. There may have been a back alley death in the thieves book..nope, get offed by the guard while still an urchin, some crazy magical mishap in the spell-slingers...guess it's just you did so poorly you wound up dead via accident. Can't think of one in the cleric's book though....ah, just threanted with death ministering to jungle natives. The standard Priors in the Players handbook didn't have anything like them.

IIRC, Traveller had the same kind of death as the fighter? In some battle somewhere your ship gets blown up and your character gets a post-humous promotion and you start over.

And with all the tables and intricacies, I've found that group generation as a player group helps to keep the group to one that will at least usually cooperate and not have several people who will just out right shoot, stab, fireball the others on sight. My group has issues.

Basileus

Fate Core sort of has this built in, and makes a big deal about "game creation is fun/gameplay". A lot of it is about making characters mesh, like the other systems, but it also puts some time and effort into aligning the themes/goals/expectations of the campaign between players and GM. Had a GM from this very site that used the Fate Core "pre-session" process even though the game was d20 - was quite fun even then.

twiggyleaf

I do like a Session 0 to get people into the flavour of the campaign and get the administrative stuff done outside of the main "playing" activity. However, I have found, since we only get together once a week, that the players do not really like it all that much. They prefer to get right into the action. So I do as much as I can of the Session 0 online. It means more work for me, but the Players like it better. Of course, you'll sometimes get those players that don't quite prepare enough and end up slowing down the first session so that it sort of becomes a Session 0.5.

twigs

Tau_Cetacean

@ ketherian - it ran for two sessions, both of which were 4 to 6 hours each... Chaotic Evil character died, because he insisted on going it alone at one point and faced a monster that had been intended for the whole party to fight... and with his death they also lost the only person who knew where the potions they had previous looted were located (because he had previously went solo and stalked an alchemist back in the city)... given that this entire dungeon was called "The Tomb of the Forgotten Alchemist"... yeah... that was a substantial portion of the potential treasure haul

ketherian

@weasel0 - your recollection of Traveller is spot-on. I keep forgetting that HackMaster is actually a playable system (it was a joke name for a very long time + I play HarnMaster, so more jokes). I've played HackMaster (return to the little keep on the borderlands) and had a great time with it. Aside from that, all groups have issues. ;) But yours sound... special.

@Basileus - I didn't know that about Fate Core. I've had friends saying I should look into that game for ages, but I never have. Now you've given me reason to -waste my weekend when I should be working on my game- spend some time researching this further. Thanks!

@twiggyleaf - that's kinda what happens with me/my games/games I'm in; regardless of how much time we spend online trying to get things done, I always default to one-on-one sessions to assure things get done. Of course, getting folk together for that one-on-one time isn't always possible. Even though everyone's in the same city (and a short public-transit ride away), skype and google hangouts are my main means of doing this sort of paperwork.

#Tau_Cetacean - ouch! It held together longer than I would have though. Wow.

---
Ketherian
"Signs & Portents":https://swtwc.obsidianportal.com

UselessTriviaMan

I can't give enough of a glowing recommendation to the value of running a Session 0 with your players.

* It encourages your players to create pre-existing bonds between their characters, giving them reasons to already want to work together.
* It prevents the "I know what you said, but I went ahead and made a CE character anyway who is going to backstab/sabotage the rest of the table" scenario.
* It gives the GM loads of character-driven story hooks, so the game will be specifically important to the PCs and their goals.

I've done this with my last three campaigns, and it has worked very well for us. For a specific example, I knew one campaign would start out with an earthquake that caused the PCs to be trapped in a tunnel. I told them to come up with reasons why they were in that tunnel in the first place. It worked fantastically.

--------------

And "Traveller is still around":http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/rpgs/traveller.html, and it's also still pretty damn awesome. Players can start with a concept of what they want to do, but the odds of actually making it to that goal during character generation are pretty low. But that's actually the awesome; coming up with the complications and reasons for directional changes is a _blast._

Maesenko

I have done campaigns with and without session 0. I pretty much require it when I run now, and typically do it over time before the formal first session. But then, I like having fleshed out details and intricacies to a backstory, and making my players develop that aspect of their characters gets them that much more into character when we play. It also provides great hooks for adventures and lets the players have an understanding of _why_ they should be acting a certain way or taking certain actions.

Ultimately, since most of my games pull heavily from character backstory, I use session 0 for pre-game world building and to create my starting point.

As Always,
_~Mae_

Lxcharon

Session 0's for me depend on how seasoned the players are. The newer the players are the more a session 0 is required otherwise as Twiggyleaf pointed out I have more of a Session 0.5. But I love writing campaigns that specifically revolve around my player's backstories so I do make them come up with some indepth backgrounds and histories, but it's normally homework for them and I just occasionally drop in to correct or help.

UselessTriviaMan

I should probably point out that all of my 0 Sessions have also included the start of play. We don't just sit around and build characters/back stories/relationships and then go home. We do begin gaming as soon as we have all of this necessary start-of-the-campaign stuff sorted out.

Lxcharon

A number of my Session 0's take place near the end of another campaign rather than at the start of a new one. That way I have time to prepare some for the next campaign.

Keryth987

Well, my non-Fate games never have a session 0 as you call it. Nor do any of the games run by the players in my group. We have a rotation of DM's. When a campaign is winding down, any GMs who have not run a game within the last two, can pitch a campaign idea. So they give a blurb on what they what system they wanna run and a VERY basic idea of what they might have in mind. From there we vote, then everyone makes their characters during the weeks leading up to the game's start. Final versions are looked over by the GM and away we go. The players, through role playing, sometimes with assistance from the GM, decide on why they are together, why they are doing this. etc.

A Fate game is a bit different as Character creation is an interactive procedure between players. Now, my groups skips the City Creation phase, that is still the pervue of the GM. Though players do contribute a location specific to their character, well if they want the extra Fate point for it they do.

Having a formal Session 0 outside of a Fate game though, would probably bore me. When I'm at the table, I wanna game. And me, and the rest of my players, well, we are more interested in playing characters we like than in what might provide party balance. Even when playing D&D. If no one wants to play a cleric or healer, oh well. The DM tones down the combats, runs an NPC cleric, or we all stock up on potions and such and suffer the consequences.

Keelah Se'lai,
Keryth
"Shadows Over New York":http://www.obsidianportal.com/campaigns/shadows-over-new-york
"2013 Campaign of The Year":http://blog.obsidianportal.com/2013-coty-shadows-over-new-york/
"Campaign of the Month July 2013":http://blog.obsidianportal.com/shadows-over-new-york-julys-campaign-of-the-month/

Basileus

Preach it, brother!

!https://image.spreadshirtmedia.com/image-server/v1/designs/12927257,width=178,height=178,version=1427839200/praise-hands.png!

twiggyleaf

Aye aye, Captain! (Bas, I failed my saving throw too!)

twigs

ketherian

In my experience a pre-game isn't just book-work and I doubt a Session 0 is either. I like integrated parties and complex backgrounds. Working those out with other players (or as a gm) should give everyone a chance to do some role play. My reason for starting this thread, is that I started gaming back when the party got together and formed a group through discussions, with the GM and with each other. We called it a pregame and sometimes it was done in an hour, but other times it took multiple sessions to form the bond we were looking for. For me that's not making sure there's a specific character class involved so much as making sure everyone's on the same page before going forward.

It's also a really sneaky way to see if players get along and can work together over simpler things.
Whenever I've rushed it, I've had problems as a GM. Admittedly, I don't have a "regular group" to roleplay with. There's always someone new (often multiple new someones).

I don't think there's really a standard Session 0 or pregame. It depends too much on the people, the game system, and the chosen world and adventure types.