Fudging Rolls

Lxcharon

So I try to shy away from making topics here that are popular on Enworld (assuming that like me most of you are also on Enworld) But their fudging rolls discussion is completely out of hand. (as I also believe most of their topics tend to get out of hand there)

Aaaaanyway...

What's your opinion on fudging rolls? Both as a GM and as a Player?

I fudge rolls... sometimes quite often. I always try to make the best story and have the most fun with my players. I have had players die on me, of course, from vicious traps, stupid decisions and powerful bosses, but never from a band of goblins. I just don't think that lends to a fun play experience or a good story. Though I don't think most of my players know I fudge rolls, so they still feel like they could die when facing a lowly pack of wolves.

I don't have much of a opinion from the players side being as I can count the times I've been a player on one hand.

twiggyleaf

I do fudge rolls sometimes but not all that often. Usually it is to the benefit of the players but sometimes I might let a monster hit,etc. if it is making things more dramatic.

Most of the time, though, I just take what the dice give me!

twiggyleaf
CURRENT CAMPAIGN: "Mysteria":http://www.obsidianportal.com/campaigns/mysteria - set in Wolfgang Baur’s MIDGARD.
Previous CotM Aug 2012: "Shimring":http://www.obsidianportal.com/campaigns/shimring

pencilneckgeek

I don't fudge rolls terribly often, because a lot of times I try to ask myself "Why am I rolling here anyway?" If a bad die roll would have gotten in the way of the action, why roll it in the first place, ya know? Sometimes it could have made things more--interesting--and you got to be prepared for that. That's why I really dig Fate. The bad isn't always death. It's whatever is interesting to the narrative.

Basileus

Gah, I was beaten to mentioning Fate!! Nooo!

But yeah, I was going to mention the same point. In Fate, there isn't much need to fudge die rolls because failure can largely be interpreted as either normal failure, or else as "success at a cost" (i.e. you grab the Incan idol but set off the system of traps in the ruined temple). So when rolls go poorly for the players, you don't need to fudge it so much as come up with some interesting complication to introduce into the story.

If you can't come up with good complications on the fly, I'm convinced that the Indiana Jones "giant stone sphere" rolling toward the escaping players works in pretty much any setting... Space opera? Crushed under a giant alien stone sphere. High fantasy? Crushed under a giant magical stone sphere. Urban noir? Crushed under a giant stone sphere in a fedora and trenchcoat!

GrayGriffin

My DM has fudged a die roll for me once, giving me a natural 20 when I missed with an attack roll. However, this was mainly because the attacker was my (as of then) mostly pacifistic Weedle, who had just evolved out of determination to protect her friends and save the tree that they were fighting from itself. We'd probably have won either way, but this way her evolution was actually the dramatic moment it should have been, as it often is in the Pokemon anime.

EDIT: Also, he did this in full view of everyone else, which gave it an extra sense of "epicness," at least in this case.

GamingMegaverse

This is a topic that has been discussed "here":http://forums.obsidianportal.com/comments.php?DiscussionID=2361& previously, so I suggest you check it out!

BearerOfTidings

I have strong emotions on fudging die rolls. This is primarily because the following sequence happens:
1) I create the best adventure I can
2) The players tend to go in an unexpected direction (which causes less and less despair as I have gotten more and more experienced). The big question I ask myself during this time is whether or not their direction will tell a better story. Frequently it does.
3) The dice intervene, throwing both the original and the player story into the trash bin
4) Here's the cool part: the players and the GM cooperate a bit to tell an even better story

Example: The players are cops trying to take down a crime kingpin. They are operating a bit unofficially (hey, they're PC's!) so their resources are limited. I had planned for them to follow a chain of contacts to an unhappy ex-mistress who would give them a ton of information and get them official backing and the resources they needed to attack the kingpin's stronghold. The kingpin would escape out a secret hidden back door.

The group decided to assume the secret hidden back door existed and searched for it obsessively until they found it. Their plan was to sneak in the back door and capture the crime kingpin and get enough evidence for a conviction. This allowed them to complete the mission while staying unofficial. Different direction, but I couldn't argue with their goals so I went with it. At least they didn't try to go in guns blazing, assuming that they would survive the inquiry that followed (assuming they survived the assault as well).

Then they fumbled the lockpicking roll and could not open the secret door from the outside. I expected them to go back to the original plot and dangled some plot hooks which were ignored.

Instead they hatched a desperate scheme to infiltrate the kingpin's stronghold under cover and try to find the other side of the secret door and open it from the inside. This turned out to be a much more powerful story than either of the previous versions because it allowed me to show, rather than tell the players, about the inner workings of the kingpin's empire (which was much larger than expected). There were some comic disguise malfunctions (none of the characters had experience working undercover) and everybody was scared stiff all the time and on top of their game, which made for a much better adventure.

The group accumulated enough evidence to bring in the rest of the police department and brought the plot back to my original end-point except that the group was watching the secret door during the raid and captured the kingpin. Commendations all the way around!

So I turned the next part of the story from the revenge of the kingpin into the rise of his lieutenant, which made for a better story as the lieutenant was more of an unknown and left me a lot of different directions to take the story.

All of this happened because of one botched die roll when picking a lock. This sort of thing happens in about 2/3rds of my adventures. It is mystifying, infuriating, and marvelous at the same time. Word has gotten out about my adventures and I some times have to turn away players who want to experience this for themselves.

That said, there are times when I do fudge my die rolls slightly because the players do deserve an occasional break. The dice gods are sometimes too cruel.

NikMak

depends on the game, the players, and the timing in the story

gritty survival horror? nope, I dont fudge dice

epic fantasy? ok, sometimes I will, because its lame to have a PC death from a vicious street dog in dark ages London

Supers/ space opera etc? yup :) if I havent remembered to dish out enough hero points (or whatever the system uses) I will fudge a die roll and then try remember to be more generous with the hero points in future

also for younger players or gamers who are new to the hobby I will fudge dice rolls like crazy for the first session or three, and then gradually ease back

Lxcharon

Thanks Killervp. I have a tendency not to search for previously created topics and just create a new one.

And to clarify for my fudging, I only fudge in battle. Otherwise their on their own. Though normally a low roll outside doesn't mean a fail so much as just a bad outcome.