religion and player interaction

Lxcharon
Lxcharon
edited December 2015 in General Discussion
This time around I'm looking at religion and belief systems and how you implement them in your campaign. I sometimes feel like if a pc isn't a Paladin or cleric or the characters aren't actively fighting a cult religion holds almost no sway in rpgs anymore.

Whether this is a move on WotC to separate from the bad juju of the 80's or the fact that people are just less religious these days I'm not sure. Though I'm pretty sure it leans more to the latter because I've realized some half-assed belief systems tossed in some newer games. I mean when was the last time a game came out with an individual deities and gods manual?

I know i have my players choose a god during character creation but most never think about it again. I mean it's not like players are going to church or anything. I once even had a cleric who forgot who their patron god was and had to check with their sheet to answer a question i posed. A cleric!

But I'm rambling now.

What I want to know is how integrated is religion in your campaigns? Do you do away with it all together? Is it an integral part of the plot? Do gods walk among mortals? Or have they completely abandoned them?

Comments

  • Tau_Cetacean
    Tau_Cetacean
    Posts: 285
    for D&D, I've made my own homebrew pantheon - mostly because I feel high fantasy doesn't work if good or evil are stronger than the other on some cosmic level, so I have a true neutral supreme creator God and a lower echelon of supreme elemental gods and supreme alignment gods (CN, LN, NG, NE)... but after that, I let a player who wanted to be a paladin name the god of paladins, players who wanted to play clerics, but didn't want to follow any of the ones I'd made, develop their own deities (who were pegged as one of dozens or hundreds of lesser gods, worked out a system where the gods are connected to the stars, e.g. the outer planes or portals to them are bright domes on an astral plane that's the interior side of the celestial sphere)... my last big campaign involved a crusade / jihad between followers of LG Paladin God and the LN God, just because I wanted something a little different than the standard law versus chaos or evil versus good... this was lawful asshole "we must unite all the lawful nations under one rule to fight against chaos" versus "eh... independent nations are good"

    I think it is the latter... I'll have to try and find it again now, but there was an article I read about how gamer geeks are the ones doing the most to preserve the history of the anti-D&D hysteria of the 1980s, as sort of a proof point that the godless geeks were the ones who utterly and comprehensively won that cultural battle and now are the only ones who care about their erstwhile oppressors

    for my sci-fi setting I go with my own atheistic bias and assert there are no gods... but there is still religion... and then I struggle to be objective about it as possible (but then sometimes IRL religion does something that exceeds my wildest attempts to parody it - e.g. the all-female cult that worships Vladimir Putin as the second coming of one of the apostles)
  • twiggyleaf
    twiggyleaf
    Posts: 2,006
    Religion is very important to my campaigns and all of my characters have their Gods but I really only press home the point for clerics and paladins. I believe aracanists do not necessarily have to be all that religious, although I will gladly give the players ammunition if they ask for it.

    If you want to increase your players' awareness of Divine influence, one very useful OP tool you can use is the Secret Player Message (I think you may have to be Ascendant to get this function). I sometimes give the players obscure DIVINE MESSAGES in "dreams" using this method.

    Playing the Kobold Press's MIDGARD world also allows some flexibility on this level, due the the Gods' use of masks. This allows for changes in characters' relationships with various members of the current pantheon, or indeed other pantheons.

    twiggyleaf
    CURRENT CAMPAIGN: "Mysteria":http://www.obsidianportal.com/campaigns/mysteria - set in Wolfgang Baur’s MIDGARD.
    Previous CotM Aug 2012: "Shimring":http://www.obsidianportal.com/campaigns/shimring

    "I met a traveller from an antique land....."

    CotM May 2016: Mysteria: set in Wolfgang Baur’s MIDGARD.

    Previous CotM Aug 2012: Shimring: High Level Multiplanar Campaign

    Inner Council Member

  • Basileus
    Basileus
    Posts: 585 edited December 2015
    Religion is pretty integral to my world-building, in fact it's usually where I start.

    It sets up the cosmology, the legendary history, what races exist and why, and any significant "magical" aspects of the setting. After that it lends itself to little cultural quirks - holidays, superstitions, etc...

    It's not always organized though. In fact, the setting I'm currently working on is centered around living demigods who don't have clergy or worshippers (per se), but their presence is crucial to how the history of nations played out and led to the current world stage. When religion itself is organized, I prefer to have the divine be somewhat removed from the daily goings on - the organized religious forces can provide that same influence on the plot that divine beings might otherwise provide. Having a powerful organized religion alongside powerful divine beings makes it hard to present a believable threat without escalating to an apocalyptic plotline (which can be fun), or making that religion itself the enemy (also interesting, but not really my taste in storylines).

    I do generally like things to be "blurry" - with mages frequently calling on what would be thought of as religious/spiritual powers, and leaving sufficient room where appropriate regarding what is circumstance versus supernatural intervention. I guess that's an attempt to be semi-historical-esque, with many things being pseudo-religious by historical association.
    Post edited by Basileus on
  • GamingMegaverse
    GamingMegaverse
    Posts: 2,998
    My current campaign revolves around rebuilding the God Osiris, so to say it is integral is a massive understatement.
    The players enjoy the Light, Dark, and the Greys... many religions have played a part in the campaign, and many more will be involved by the end.
    In this world the most popular religion is the Church of Light and Dark, with the Egyptian gods, and the Gods have been involved. It is pseudo-Christianity, pseudo historical Egyptian, and pseudo Greco-Roman- so a liberal mix.
    killervp
    "A God...Rebuilt":https://a-god-rebuilt.obsidianportal.com

    Just trying to help out.

  • Maesenko
    Maesenko
    Posts: 325
    While I don't generally press the point home (with the exception of religion/divine characters and a certain CN deity...), religion is present in my setting, be it the foundation of a society, or something to use for flavor. I have a theocracy or two in my setting (so far), but otherwise there aren't dedicated religious influences unless the players want to involve them. I've still never run the "crazy/evil cult" trope though...

    Right now, I've been contemplating in my head the cosmology of the setting via the building of my own pantheon(s), and the hierarchical structure of one particular theocracy that I know is a world power (kind of like the Vatican).

    Other than that, it's mostly there to help with backstory, history, holidays and celebrations, etc. More world-building, less world-playing.

    _~Mae_

    ~Mae

    CotM Selection Committee

  • Lxcharon
    Lxcharon
    Posts: 189
    Tau, you always bring up something about the world that blows my mind. Is there really an all female cult that worships putin?! Also really like your star concept... I may have to borrow that If you don't mind. It reflects a lot of ancient beliefs and I like that.

    Twigs I'm not ascendent, and probably won't be until things here... improve. But i do text my players secrets. Including texting them at the table. I've also been wondering about Midgard, and while this is a complete distraction what do you use to play midgard in 5e. I've looked at kobold press and they have some 5e support but it seems most of their stuff is just for pathfinder. Do you just use the pathfinder material and convert it?

    And Basileus and Mae i definitely personally use deities in my world building. (My entire campaign atm is based around a creation story) though I am beginning to play around with the evolution of religion and the rise and fall of different belief systems, though I'm finding it hard in a world of actual gods.

    I'm a fan of your campaign killervp and enjoy your real world based pantheon.
  • Lxcharon
    Lxcharon
    Posts: 189
    Oh and Nevermind Twigs, I see your campaign is ran on pathfinder, idk why i thought you played 5e.
  • GamingMegaverse
    GamingMegaverse
    Posts: 2,998
    Thanks for the kind words Lxcharon- hope you will add Rebuilt to your favorites.

    Just trying to help out.

  • Lxcharon
    Lxcharon
    Posts: 189
    Weird, killervp, I'm like 90% sure I was a fan. Well i made sure I aM one now.
  • Tau_Cetacean
    Tau_Cetacean
    Posts: 285 edited December 2015
    @Lxcharon - yep, there is - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/8509670/All-female-sect-worships-Vladimir-Putin-as-Paul-the-Apostle.html

    don't mind you borrowing the star concept - will add that I have the ethereal plane existing in interplanetary space, a nod to the old notion about the aether... I like how I was able to combine theology and astrology in my game world... the main drawback / oddity I should have seen coming was once the campaign got more into the Underdark, there was a bit of a disconnect since now you are dealing with races which still have gods, who still have power, but the races themselves have no practical experience with astrology / astronomy

    besides clerics casting spells that work, and religion having political and military power, I tend to shy away from too much direct "divine intervention", the Caliph wound up being ruled by a Justicator (LN Archangel, basically) and that was a massively destabilizing / out of the ordinary event that capstoned a campaign that had gone from taking a party from 1st to 25th level

    to the extent that the Caliphate in my world was loosely inspired by Islamic Caliphate, and at campaign's end, the party assassinated the Caliph and plunged the Caliphate into a civil war, I am toying with that area of my campaign world in future campaigns returning to worshiping the "old gods" - loosely based on the Nabataean pantheon, which I find fascinating
    Post edited by Tau_Cetacean on
  • cgregory
    cgregory
    Posts: 780 edited December 2015
    Depends on the campaign, for Pathfinder, I tend to focus more on the regional differences in those religions and I find domains are a great way of doing that. Different geographic regions might focus on different domains of a god.

    In my Throne of Thorns campaign, both the cleric and the paladin were of the same goddess. However, they were from very different parts of the world. The deity Sarenrae has Fire, Glory, Good, Healing, Sun as her domains. The cleric grew up in the local area where Sarenrae's domains of Good and Healing are most venerated and they focus more on her compassion and belief in redeeming evil creatures. The paladin grew up in the blasted desert where Sarenrae used her sword the powers of the Sun and Fire to scorch the evil God Rovagug. Turning the once lush lands into a scorching desert. There they venerate her domains of Sun, Fire and Glory and view her as a warrior and preach swift justice at a scimitar's edge.

    There were some great role playing moments throughout the campaign as those two conflicting views of the same religion clashed.

    Here are some adventure logs from that campaign.

    "Earlier on in the campaign":https://throne-of-thorns.obsidianportal.com/adventure-log/temper

    "Later on in the campaign as they came to some common ground":https://throne-of-thorns.obsidianportal.com/adventure-log/revelations
    Post edited by cgregory on

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  • twiggyleaf
    twiggyleaf
    Posts: 2,006
    I like the sound of that, cgregory

    twigs

    "I met a traveller from an antique land....."

    CotM May 2016: Mysteria: set in Wolfgang Baur’s MIDGARD.

    Previous CotM Aug 2012: Shimring: High Level Multiplanar Campaign

    Inner Council Member

  • Lxcharon
    Lxcharon
    Posts: 189
    Wow, yeah cgregory, I enjoy that a lot. It's actually also very real world.
  • Bortas
    Bortas
    Posts: 645
    cgregory- that's a fantastically simple and obvious way to get religion focused into the world, kudos!

    -bort
    "Morwindl":https://morwindl.obsidianportal.com
    "EIDL":https://eidl.obsidianportal.com
  • GamingMegaverse
    GamingMegaverse
    Posts: 2,998
    Cgregory- I agree, well done!
    I have a similar situation where the worshiper of Khonsu from the wilderness worships by slaughtering animals, and the worshiper from the civilized city worships by helping the downtrodden. They are starting to have some interesting disagreements.
    "Recent Log":https://a-god-rebuilt.obsidianportal.com/adventure-log/whats-in-a-name

    killervp
    "A God...Rebuilt":https://a-god-rebuilt.obsidianportal.com

    Just trying to help out.

  • Abersade
    Abersade
    Posts: 417
    Religion is mostly inextricable from my setting, so much so that five of my six player's characters have very strong (and completely dissimilar) views. This is likely because in my setting all followers of a god receive certain benefits and drawbacks (called Bans and Boons). The game I'm running now takes place 5,000 years after a massive religious conflict that left the entire setting in ruins, half of my current players played in that game which may also help to explain their focus on religion.

    The Half-Giant Cleric: He is a warrior in the service to the titan god of Light, dedicated to "Bringing the Light of Othanops" to the followers of evil. His faith is unwavering, as is his blind devotion.
    The Goliath Ranger/Duskblade/Earth Dreamer: She has dedicated her service to the goddess of Knowledge and Magic, scouring the hidden alcoves of the world in search of recovering what was lost.
    The Half-Elf Rogue: She is a follower of the dragon god of commerce, music, and bards, and hosts massive parties for the townsfolk regularly so that they may make merry.
    The Necropolitan Kiloren Monk: He is dedicated to the serpent god of destruction, as such he revels in destroying things methodically.
    The Yuan Ti Halfblood Psion (Kinetiscist): She feels that the gods and goddesses are essentially worse than useless, as their squabbles bleed over and result in hardships for the people of her country (she is one of the many daughters of the Empress).
    Then there is the Human Artificer: He doesn't hold that strong of a view on religion mainly because his character isn't from the same country as the others.

    cgregory - That's a neat idea and definitely presents the players with plenty of RP possibilities.

    -Abersade
    DM of "Rise of the Durnskald - Wrath of the Fallen Goddess":https://rise-of-the-durnskald.obsidianportal.com/

    GM of Rise of the Durnskald: Wrath of the Fallen Goddess - February 2016 CotM

    GM of Core: The Ashes of Alcarna - April 2020 CotM

    GM of Stream of Kairos

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  • Keryth987
    Keryth987
    Posts: 1,047
    Well, I cant say religion doesn't play a part in Shadows Over New York. After all, God is present in the Dresden Files books (Or least implied with the whole Holy Swords with nails from the crucifixion not to mention Dresden meeting archangels, angels, and fallen angels) and Dresden Files is the basis for Shadows, albeit, diluted with other things. Also, both the Olympian and Egyptian pantheons have a presence of one degree to another with the Half-Bloods (of Percy Jackson) and the House of Life (of the Series by the author of Percy Jackson whose name and series name elude me right now). So have to say that yes, religion plays a part in my campaigns. Kind of hard for it not too when you have a Daughter of Aphrodite, a sorceress who channels the goddess Nephyths, not to mention the demonologist who serves God and calls upon the very fires of Creation (and is in love with a Termanatrix, but that's another story). And that doesn't even touch on the Fallen Archangel that will be opposing my players in my upcoming campaign.

    As for more standard High Fantasy campaigns, well, my campaign world is shared with two other GMs. I'm the forgotten realms fan, the others are Greyhawk and Dragonlance based, so, yea, religion plays a part beyond Clerics and Paladins and Druids and such in our campaigns. Last campaign we had, the Hero-Deity Murlynd sponsored the characters for Mythic abilities and set their feet upon the path to becoming Hero-Deities themselves.

    Keelah Se'lai,
    Keryth
    "Shadows Over New York":http://www.obsidianportal.com/campaigns/shadows-over-new-york
    "2013 Campaign of The Year":http://blog.obsidianportal.com/2013-coty-shadows-over-new-york/
    "Campaign of the Month July 2013":http://blog.obsidianportal.com/shadows-over-new-york-julys-campaign-of-the-month/

  • Basileus
    Basileus
    Posts: 585
    I really liked how Dresden Files handled the "White God" (as fairies and such referred to it) in the context of a setting where other "gods" exist but the nature and relationship of them all is unknown.

    You can interpret the "White God" as an absolute divine being as thought of in Abrahamic monotheism, or you can regard it as an exceptionally powerful and influential supernatural being otherwise similar to the "pagan" gods that show up in Dresden. Or anything in between really. Its creative, with room for good plot points, and sufficiently ambiguous that anyone can interpret it as they like without offending sensibilities.
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