Contingency Planning

Tau_Cetacean
Tau_Cetacean
edited December 2015 in General Discussion
so, I auto-renewed on November 16th, and given the current state of the website, I think we're getting ripped off at $40/year and low-functionality website and tech support going AWOL for months at a time... best case scenario of course is the new "we're getting everything under control" message from Kaleidoscope is legit, but I think one of my New Year's Resolutions is to pack my bags and prepare to bug out

to that end, wanted to sound out what tips people might have for how to do that as painlessly as possible (context: have thousands of wiki pages... also I'm a science geek working for an IT and Engineering-oriented company, so this might be a good excuse as any to accelerate my cross-training and learn some more coding)

worse case scenario: the site goes dark tomorrow because Kaleidoscope Global just ups and pulls the plug on us
recovery option: take the .xml file the current backup feature spits out... parse it back into a thousand text files, copy and paste them into a new platform
current action: making regular backups of my campaigns with the current feature, resolved to bug out if the backup feature becomes yet another broken feature on this site
needs to do: 1) figure out what the best way to approach automating reading the xml file and parsing it into separate text files equivalent to the old wiki pages, 2) figure out another venue which uses textile OR figure out best way to batch convert textile into something more widely used...
status: have tested out desktop wiki software (Zim), it doesn't do textile, tried desktop version of GitHub (which is mainly a software dev collaboration tool, but has a wiki functionality associated with it and speaks textile and has a desktop version... limited luck so far, but better than a GitHub competitor which says it reads textile but when I tested it out, not so much)

medium case scenario: the site continues to have poor functioning by November 2016
desired course of action: find a more civilized way to save and migrate everything... meaning probably learning some client-side scripting and writing my own code to pull every single wiki page off?
fall back method: manually doing this. ugh. like I said: thousands of wiki pages

best case scenario: the site's functionality gets fixed and have confidence is restored
desired course of action: probably still want to learn the right client-side scripting so I can *upload* batch generated pages (from offline Bash scripting) to my wiki, not just download them as described above

Comments

  • GamingMegaverse
    GamingMegaverse
    Posts: 2,876
    As I have stated on another thread, some of us are working on a new alternative- hopefully live before this completely dies.
    Follow me on Twitter, as that will not go down. @GodRebuilt

    Just trying to help out.  Changed name from killervp to Gaming Megaverse to match other sites.

  • Tau_Cetacean
    Tau_Cetacean
    Posts: 285
    following you on twitter now, twitter isn't really my thing (until today, haven't logged on in years), good to have a backup channel of communication though
  • GamingMegaverse
    GamingMegaverse
    Posts: 2,876
    It will be a bit, shooting for GenCon.

    Just trying to help out.  Changed name from killervp to Gaming Megaverse to match other sites.

  • Keryth987
    Keryth987
    Posts: 875
    I don't do twitter, but I might just to keep apprised of this new development.

    I've certainly had my fill of this crap. Even considering contacting Kickstarter about the unfulfilled goals. Maybe even a LAWYER (*GASP*)


    Keelah Se'lai,
    Keryth
    "Shadows Over New York":http://www.obsidianportal.com/campaigns/shadows-over-new-york
    "2013 Campaign of The Year":http://blog.obsidianportal.com/2013-coty-shadows-over-new-york/
    "Campaign of the Month July 2013":http://blog.obsidianportal.com/shadows-over-new-york-julys-campaign-of-the-month/
  • cgregory
    cgregory
    Posts: 772
    Hi Tau

    I simply transferred my stuff to OneNote and granted my players access to edit the document. They work on it online (or offline if they add OneDrive) on their PCs, their tablets, or their phones and it syncs up all the changes. OneNote and OneDrive are free so it was a no risk test for my group.

    Basically you create sections based on OP main sections (adventure logs, wiki, characters, etc) and pages within those sections. Within a couple minutes you have an OP Onenote.

    Carl

    They are among us!

    image

    Current Campaign: XCom: Defiance - Campaign of the Month November 2016

                                           My Campaign CSS

                              Unlocking The Portal: A Guide to OP CSS                                    

     

     

  • Tau_Cetacean
    Tau_Cetacean
    Posts: 285
    Cgreg -

    Thanks. I'll take a look at OneNote.

    - Tau
  • SkidAce
    SkidAce
    Posts: 826
    Evernote is working similarly for me.

    By limiting the resolution of any fancy pictures, I can duplicate my OP wiki's information and stay at the free level.

    The sync between my home computer and the web means I only have to type things once.

    I would rather use OP for the main campaign (more pictures, customization, forums etc) but Evernote is working spectacularly as a backup site. That I can also access from other devices.
  • cgregory
    cgregory
    Posts: 772
    If I remember correctly Evernote has a 1 GB monthly bandwidth limit but no storage limit, whereas OneNote has no bandwidth limit, but has a 30 GB storage limit when combined with OneDrive. Granted that storage limit is drastically decreasing to just 5 GB in Jan 2016 unless you grandfather in your 30 GB account using the link below

    https://preview.onedrive.com/bonus/

    You can read about that here

    http://www.computerworld.com/article/3014572/cloud-storage/microsoft-apologizes-for-riling-onedrive-users-restores-some-free-storage-space-on-request.html

    I do find Evernote is superior to OneNote in clipping stuff from the web, but OneNote is superior when creating content from scratch.

    They are among us!

    image

    Current Campaign: XCom: Defiance - Campaign of the Month November 2016

                                           My Campaign CSS

                              Unlocking The Portal: A Guide to OP CSS                                    

     

     

  • SkidAce
    SkidAce
    Posts: 826
    How do you find OneNote across devices and such?

    Evernote is pretty seamless, but I'm not married to it or anything...
  • cgregory
    cgregory
    Posts: 772 edited December 2015
    Pretty seamless as well, I'm currently sharing it with 6 people and I've seen one conflict when two people edited the same part of the same page at the same time. It lets me the owner decide what stays and what goes or if I want to combine the two in those cases.

    I think both are great products.
    Post edited by cgregory on

    They are among us!

    image

    Current Campaign: XCom: Defiance - Campaign of the Month November 2016

                                           My Campaign CSS

                              Unlocking The Portal: A Guide to OP CSS                                    

     

     

  • GamingMegaverse
    GamingMegaverse
    Posts: 2,876
    They are both good backups- unfortunately my campaign is so big I had to break it into pieces...

    Just trying to help out.  Changed name from killervp to Gaming Megaverse to match other sites.

  • cgregory
    cgregory
    Posts: 772
    Killervp, with OneNote the limit you might be running into is each section is limited to 2 GB (this is because OneNote saves by the section and OneDrive has a 2 GB file limit). The solution might be as simple as splitting big sections up by year or Main Theme. For example Adventure Logs 2015, Adventure Logs 2014, etc.; Wiki - Religion, Wiki - Rules, etc.

    They are among us!

    image

    Current Campaign: XCom: Defiance - Campaign of the Month November 2016

                                           My Campaign CSS

                              Unlocking The Portal: A Guide to OP CSS                                    

     

     

  • twiggyleaf
    twiggyleaf
    Posts: 1,728
    I actually have enough faith to continue.
    If the site REALLY did come to an end, I'd just start again.

    twiggyleaf
    CURRENT CAMPAIGN: "Mysteria":http://www.obsidianportal.com/campaigns/mysteria - set in Wolfgang Baur’s MIDGARD.
    Previous CotM Aug 2012: "Shimring":http://www.obsidianportal.com/campaigns/shimring

    "I met a traveller from an antique land....."

    CotM May 2016: Mysteria: set in Wolfgang Baur’s MIDGARD.

    Previous CotM Aug 2012: Shimring: High Level Multiplanar Campaign

    Inner Council Member

  • Lxcharon
    Lxcharon
    Posts: 189
    I remember a couple years ago there being an application that you could download onto your computer and update like a wiki and was made for running tabletop rpgs and even had a built in dice roller and maybe support maps(I don't 100% remember) and you invited people by email but I can't for the life of me remember the name of it. It would probably be a pretty good alternative. If only I could remember what it was called!
  • twiggyleaf
    twiggyleaf
    Posts: 1,728
    LOL! I remember that too.....I think it was called PRE REFORGE!

    twigs

    "I met a traveller from an antique land....."

    CotM May 2016: Mysteria: set in Wolfgang Baur’s MIDGARD.

    Previous CotM Aug 2012: Shimring: High Level Multiplanar Campaign

    Inner Council Member

  • Keryth987
    Keryth987
    Posts: 875
    ROFLMAO twiggy


    Keelah Se'lai,
    Keryth
    "Shadows Over New York":http://www.obsidianportal.com/campaigns/shadows-over-new-york
    "2013 Campaign of The Year":http://blog.obsidianportal.com/2013-coty-shadows-over-new-york/
    "Campaign of the Month July 2013":http://blog.obsidianportal.com/shadows-over-new-york-julys-campaign-of-the-month/
  • GamingMegaverse
    GamingMegaverse
    Posts: 2,876
    From someone who wished not to be named-

    In any case I found a tool that will let you download your entire site - layout and everything. It can't get the images for some reason because they are 'rehosted' away from the 'portal domain name' (as best as I understand it). Since I am most concerned about my data (text) that is what I care the most about. The images I can redo. And the funny thing it wasn't all the images that caused this issue.

    It took me about an hour to download my campaign (16 mb) - which includes install time, figuring out how it works, and trying it a few times.

    "Free Download Manager":http://www.freedownloadmanager.org/

    I, killervp, personally have not tried it yet due to the craziness of the holidays, but trust the person who sent it to me.

    Just trying to help out.  Changed name from killervp to Gaming Megaverse to match other sites.

  • Tau_Cetacean
    Tau_Cetacean
    Posts: 285
    downloaded it and gave it a shot, wasn't really working for me... will try again when I have more time... worst case scenario I write a script to parse out stuff from the xml file the existing download feature provides (I don't care about images so much, I was hosting them elsewhere, specific image url call outs on species wiki pages is all I needed to preserve... but I would want something that would download all of my wiki pages without me specifying all of the URLs)
  • Tau_Cetacean
    Tau_Cetacean
    Posts: 285
    is it just me or has the site been working better lately? had stopped working on my main campaign page (the insane sci-fi timeline wiki thingy), was messing around with a secondary campaign (Star Wars), just because the new movie put me in the mood... and didn't get a single Bad Gateway Error, like some kind of instance of Murphy's Law... the only thing different would be that it was over the holidays (less server load?) and a different campaign
  • wraith808
    wraith808
    Posts: 4
    A couple of alternatives I've looked at recently:

    http://www.epicwords.com/ - Seems to be in a better but worse shape than here. It works, which is a plus. But the last time the dev posted was towards the beginning of the year. But you can see that he is active, so not really sure there.
    https://www.tavern-keeper.com/ - not as feature filled as OP, and it's having problems too. It's supposed to be going OS and the site going on maintenance, but why get on a ship with an uncertain future?
    https://www.cityofbrass.io/ - seems the closest to OP, and they've been pretty consistent in updates and functionality. Thread on coming from OP is located at https://symposium.cityofbrass.io/t/coming-from-obsidian-portal/470
    http://roleplayingtips.com/gmm-tools2/ - it's not really the same, though it is pretty cool. It's a Campaign Logger to be used during play, rather than a site for your campaign.
    http://www.scabard.com/ - Admin has been plugging along for a while now, and is very involved in the development of the tool. Very bare bones - text based for the most part. But it's easy to put in your details because of the interface lack, and it is under constant development.

    I've also always used PmWiki on my local server, but haven't really wanted to keep up with the admin to that extent and customizations. I do it for others, but found when I was doing it for myself, I spent more time on it than I probably should. So having others deal with that aspect is worth money to me. But not when they're not responsive to even simple tickets.

    If anyone else has any other hosted alternatives, let me know!
  • Tau_Cetacean
    Tau_Cetacean
    Posts: 285
    I had only looked at epicworlds and seen the problems there... in a once bitten, twice shy mode now, like the quip about the hype about cloud computing: anytime you see the word "cloud" replace it with "someone else's server" and see how it sounds... for my static-but-large world-building exercise, working on a website, will have to figure out where/when to host it, but at least I will have a copy of all the material on my own hard drive in a useful form...

    for actual games... like my D&D campaign that's showing signs of life... need to look at all the places you've listed (thanks!!!) and get something set up before advertising to players (I've yet to have a player-ready site on OP, and I'm assuming players would encounter the same constant 500-errors problem we do, so have little motivation to set up a wiki for them to not be able to navigate through)
  • wraith808
    wraith808
    Posts: 4
    I have taken to backing up my work on any site in The Keep, so I'm covered there in case of catastrophic failure. I'd rather be able to find somewhere I can trust. But I can totally understand the once bitten, twice shy mode, as the businesses behind these sites seem to have a business plan of hopes and dreams rather than building trust.
  • GamingMegaverse
    GamingMegaverse
    Posts: 2,876
    Good list wraith808- thanks!

    Just trying to help out.  Changed name from killervp to Gaming Megaverse to match other sites.

  • Maesenko
    Maesenko
    Posts: 325
    That "someone else's server" bit is gold, Tau. I really have to remember that one (especially since I'm somewhat opposed to cloud computing).

    _~Mae_

    ~Mae

    CotM Selection Committee

  • wraith808
    wraith808
    Posts: 4
    Cloud computing is like anything else. It has to be used correctly. OP is on someone else's server. But having done (and actually doing the same for friends), I can say that someone else's server means that someone else is spending the time to maintain it. It's a big point. You just have to keep a copy of your data (how intensive that is is based on how much trust you have for the server owner). That's one of the reasons I'm looking at trying evernote instead of the keep for my backups. The Keep is great and works with Dropbox for backing up, and can run off of a dropbox folder, so I have it everywhere. Unless I don't have dropbox installed. Evernote still syncs to your computer, but has a web interface.

    Those that are using Evernote, there is another alternative for you to make publishing a bit easier -

    http://postach.io/

    See http://help.postach.io/ for information as to how it's done, and what it entails.

    And the limits on evernote are based on how much you're paying.

    Basic (Free) - 60MB/mo
    Plus (2.99/mo or 24.99/year) 1TB/mo
    Premium (5.99/mo or 49.99/year) 10 TB/mo.

    Note that is only upload per month. You don't have a storage limit- you have an upload limit/month.

    If you are involved in using Evernote, I recommend Johnn Four's excellent class on Evernote for RPGs. It changed my paradigm for using Evernote.

    https://roleplayingtips.com/evernote-mini-course/
  • SkidAce
    SkidAce
    Posts: 826
    Thanks Wraith, I am going to check out those links.

    Evernote seems to be the way for me (as a backup, not my main site) and any hints are helpful.

    Since at the beginning, all I am doing is saving all my hard work in text, I never run into the upload limit.
  • SkidAce
    SkidAce
    Posts: 826
    Sadly, the last link had no videos. Old?
  • wraith808
    wraith808
    Posts: 4
    The youtube video links are unsecured, and its an https connection.

    If you're using Chrome, click the little shield in the address bar, and click allow. Not sure how to do the same in other browsers, but there should be something obvious that allows the same.
  • bluesguy
    bluesguy
    Posts: 127
    I do know that OP is using a major cloud provider. That is a good thing. The problems that happened with the forum has to do with the fact that the original code was not kept up to date with the underlying software updates (i.e. it was a php application and it was my versions behind). Cloud providers keep all those underlying tools up to date and you are expected to keep up to date with them.
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