Revamping an old concept

BluePhoenix8

Card Based RPGs
Alright so we (our company) have this idea to create our own Card Based Tabletop RPG and I know there quite a few out there, some successful....some not. So lets start this off:

1. If you were offered to play a brand new Card Based RPG, would you Accept or Reject the offer and Why?

2. What would a Card Based RPG have to offer to grab your interest?

3. Would the absence of dice completely deter you away from playing, even as a demo?

4. What could you see becoming a problem in that wouldn't be present in a traditional dice based tabletop roleplaying game.

Let the discussions begin!!! Please be as specific and detailed as possible with your responses, we am looking for some major feedback maybe on issues we have not yet thought about that could cause issues. Greatly appreciated.

Basileus

I've seen the concept discussed before, but I'm not sure I know of any actually successful card-based RPGs, so I guess my thoughts on the matter are pure speculation/theory, rather than being grounded in experience with any such games.

1 and 3: I would probably accept, regardless of the presence of dice. I'd at least give it a try, though I'd probably be less likely to pick it out of a store shelf lineup of RPGs.

2: I would say that it needs to have a strong theme/setting to draw me in, perhaps with some compelling artwork on the cards themselves to reinforce that theme during play.

2 and 4: I would avoid a simple bonus/penalty to actions type of system because then it just becomes a poor man's dice game with the additional hassle of shuffling - I think with a card-based mechanic you can't rely as much on frequent randomization and rolling for actions/outcomes. I would also avoid a "customizable deck" type of system because then I'm frustrated that most of my character's powers aren't available to me at any given time unless I happen to have drawn them recently.

Instead, it would need to focus on narrative consequences, outcomes, and complications. So perhaps character's capabilities are pretty static (defined by the character sheet), but when they do something dramatic a card is drawn/flipped over. If it was a Tarot-like mechanic, maybe the GM flips over Death and everyone at the table gasps, because that means that a plot-significant death or violence has to occur. If the Sun is flipped over, the character learns something new or unexpectedly figures something out in the course of doing whatever they are doing. And so on...

Or on the flip-side (no pun intended), maybe at the beginning of a session you are dealt a few Tarot-like cards, and you can play them into a situation during the course of play to affect the plot beyond what your character sheet would allow your character to. For example, maybe I was dealt Death at the beginning of a session, so I get into combat with some mid-level boss and instead of leaving the outcome of the fight to chance or my character's abilities, I play in Death, and he meets a quick and bloody end.

Anyway, my point in those examples isn't the specific mechanics but to focus on bigger narrative outcomes and consequences, and avoid using cards as a simple replacement for dice as a bonus/penalty system. Without knowing if your theme supports other gameplay styles, my general thoughts on a card-based RPG are that each card should be big and mean something when it comes into play, not a throw-away (again, no pun) event like a dice-roll. When the GM reaches for the deck at a climactic point, the players should be holding their breath like someone visiting a fortune-teller to hear about their destiny, not searching for the Cheetos are while they wait for their next turn in the round.

BluePhoenix8

You have some very valid and great points.

The concept we are suggesting is as follows: Each character has a character sheet and builds it similar to a traditional dice based roleplaying game with the exception your abilities and skills are heavily based upon your backstory that you created. The GM's charge is to go over your backstory and assign starting stats based upon what you have written. This character sheet is what heavily modifies gameplay. You still gain levels just as you would in any other tabletop roleplaying game by defeating creatures and going on quests. There is a "base deck" of playing cards of 54 (include the jokers) which is used to resolve actions throughout the game. However your character sheet just does not add bonuses and penalties to your draw it defines what you can draw. The better skilled your character, the better your draw, and the chance you will succeed. Certain special ability cards will cause you to draw from the "base deck" to resolve the ability. Others will just activate and grant bonuses.

Now for the card concepts. Each player would have their own deck that is directly related to their character but for level 1 characters it is not "built" all the way. Each player would begin with the standard equipment and this would be their "character deck". As the character adventures and gathers more powerful items, enchantments, special abilities and the like, their "character deck" becomes increasingly powerful. So it is not as if the character gets to build their own deck like Magic: The Gathering (Mtg) and then begin play. Everything the character has is governed by the GM (like a traditional tabletop game). Now if they were higher level characters, lets say 15 for this example, then the GM could grant them money to purchase equipment, enchantments and the like that would fit a level 15 character. In a sense that would be "deck building", it would just depend on campaign and levels.

The GM holds the main deck which will contain race cards, class cards, special ability cards, equipment cards, magical item cards, monster cards, etc. The "loot" deck is built by the GM for the specific encounter. So when a party enters a dungeon or defeats a creature, the deck has already been built by the GM. When they "loot" the chests they can "loot" the deck and gain their reward. Generally the GM would choose encounters but if there was a need or want for randomization of encounters, an encounter deck could be built and put in play. That would be a matter of preference to the players and GM.

The prebuilt decks will have cards with specific levels on them to detail which adventure this deck would best suit. We are thinking of having standard decks (all types of cards), equipment decks, creature decks, to name a few that could be picked up as well to customize your game. Each of these would be level based, so you would know what level range to pick up. If you wanted to run a game for a specific level you would know which cards are best suited for what level characters. Now if a player has purchased a deck or even gained access to a specific card that they wanted to use, this could be placed in the game at the GMs discretion. If the GM feels it fits the character the player may need to spend his characters money or even go on a side quest to obtain the item. So it is not just because I have this card I can play it, it still needs to fit and gain approval, just like any supplemental material you can buy for tabletop rpgs.

Each card would have the information needed to play printed upon it. There would be a rulebook offered with it but the rulebook would act as reference material defining certain terms and offering aid to the GM for rulings and as such will be much smaller than your normal tabletop rpgs. Creature cards for instance would have their stats printed upon them therefore, there is no need to go looking through a book, same with magical items, classes, and races. The idea is to focus more on the story of the characters and bring back the roleplaying part of tabletop rpgs. Some systems get mechanically entwined you begin to lose the roleplaying aspect. The thought is with less time flipping through pages you will be able to spend more time on playing your character. Now that we have shared our concept, what do you think? Was there something I missed? Would this give the awe experience you were talking about when a GM pulls from their deck? Is there a mechanic that should be added to introduce mystery or flavor?

twiggyleaf

I played a card RPG once.
I prefer dice!

twiggyleaf
CURRENT CAMPAIGN: "Mysteria":http://www.obsidianportal.com/campaigns/mysteria - set in Wolfgang Baur’s MIDGARD.
Previous CotM Aug 2012: "Shimring":http://www.obsidianportal.com/campaigns/shimring

ketherian

1. If you were offered to play a brand new Card Based RPG, would you Accept or Reject the offer and Why?
I would accept the offer because it's something new. I like new games. I don't like learning certain games from certain people, but that's not the game's fault. In fact, that's about the only reason I've said no to a game.

2. What would a Card Based RPG have to offer to grab your interest?
Simplicity. The game could not feel like a constant need to buy cards. Which might mean I'd have to be introduced to it by new friends. ;) I like games where I can decide to go "all in" and buy everything or not - and not have it jeopardize what I can do in and with the game. My friends and I are mostly completests (a nice way of saying we're probably going to go "all in" if we like a game). But it shouldn't feel that way.

3. Would the absence of dice completely deter you away from playing, even as a demo?
No.

4. What could you see becoming a problem in that wouldn't be present in a traditional dice based tabletop roleplaying game.
* Too many cards stacked one atop the other. Granted this can be a problem in a traditional dice-based tableptop roleplaying game (too many bonuses or penalties stacked one atop the other).
* Too many versions of the same cards. Fireball spell card. Check. Fireball I, Fireball II, Fireball III, Fireball ... you've got to be kidding me. Unless these are incredibly dissimilar in appearance, it will be heck to sort this out on the table.
* A scenario requiring me to shell out money for multiple decks when I really only need six copies of one card. This was my biggest issue with Pathfinder's decks of things. Loved the idea, thought it solved a lot of problems. But each character needed their own starting decks + 1 deck per potential NPC being looted. It got pretty expensive pretty fast.
* A scenario that requires a result that cannot be derived from the result of the cards; or falls between two of the possible of the cards. I can't ask for a game to come up with every potential solution to every potential scenario; and dice allow a fudge-factor that I as GM (or player) can manipulate to deal with grey areas. I don't quite know how that would work with cards.