Grant second wind to unconscious character?

ninjazombie42

This turned into a little debate at the table, last session... So, can an unconscious character be granted second wind with the heal skill(dc10), if that character has not yet used second wind that encounter?

KenSee

I am guessing your using 4E, am I right?

Whatever the rules say, its your decision as DM. Your game, your ruling. Just sayin...

Baalshamon

PHB p.185 - Skill HEAL - Section FIRST AID - Sub-Section USE SECOND WIND:

Make a DC 10 Heal check to allow an adjacent character to use his or her second wind (page 291) without the character having to spend an action. The character doesn

ninjazombie42

Thanks, StephenWollett, but if you grant another character an attack, to use that as an example, he or she has to be awake, right, so shouldn`t that go for second wind too? or maby they all say "free action" and not "no action" in those cases?
Also, stabilizing a dying character is dc15, so why is granting second wind only dc10? I know that it doesn`t work if the second wind has already been used, but it seems a bit too good, even so...

Baalshamon

It comes down to interpretation. I would allow it in my game but can see where it would be denied in others. Stabilizing is to keep you alive and that is why it is more difficult.

ninjazombie42

But granting second wind would keep you alive, even get you back on your feet with a surge value of hit points. That is why I can`t see how it is easier to do that to an unconcsious character than just stabilizing him... Concsius, sure, but unconcsious?...
Well, i guess I`ll just have to make them use the second wind before they drop. hehe.

Baalshamon

The second wind is meant to be cinematic where the stabilization is meant to be the grittier side of the coin. It all comes down to style of play.

ninjazombie42

Yes, I get that. But I`m talking about the mechanics and trying to make sense of it. I guess I will allow it to make the players happy... Thanks for all your input.

gaaran

I'm a couple days late, but mechanically, I think while it says they don't need to SPEND an action, they still must be able to USE actions in order to use the heal skill to grant a character a second wind. They wouldn't be able to use actions while they are unconscious. Just like you wouldn't be able to grant them an attack, you wouldn't be able to grant them the use of second wind. Think of this example, if a leader type has an ability that grants a character a move action, and they are immobilized, they can't take it. Allowing your characters to do it is fine, but mechanically, it wouldn't work. It makes getting characters back into the fight much easier than they intended.

Baalshamon

Gaaran is probably right on this one. I had been looking through dragon magazine articles and found the same question answered there. If you are uncoscious you cannot take any actions even a free one.

ninjazombie42

Thanks:) I thought so. But then again, it`s not a free action, it is no action, the other character uses an action. I don`t know. "Without taking an action." The second wind only has to still be avilable for the character to use...