Unbreaking the Game

gnunn

So, I read "this post":http://www.robertjschwalb.com/2011/04/stuck-in-the-middle/ over at Robert Schwalb's blog this morning, and it's got me to thinking about which parts of my 3.5 game feel broken, and how to potentially go about fixing said parts.

I have one particular spell, which I foolishly house-ruled convinced a GM to houserule, in his game, which by default became similarly houseruled in my game, because the games are played by the same game group... just with different GMs. The problem spell:

"Haste":http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Haste

Why did we houserule it? I think we were in the middle of combat when a wizard I was playing dropped the spell, and rather than drop everything to look it up, the GM made a call... unfortunately, that call stuck and has come back to bite me in my own game.

Here's the house rule:
In my game, Haste provides the usual AC and attack bonuses, the usual double movement speed. However, it also gives the character either an extra standard or move action, rather than an extra hit on a full attack. When we said, "Sure it gives you an extra action" without actually looking at the rule, it resulted in major breakage. The spell has become a guaranteed first move in any big fight, because suddenly all the spellcasters can launch two fireballs per round, the monk gets an extra hit and the rogue can slip by for an extra backstab. From a player's perspective it's kickass! from a GM's perspective, it makes my life seriously difficult.

The trouble is, we've been running with the house rule for at least a year now. It is my PC's FAVORITE tactic. I fear that if I take it from them, I might face all out revolt. I would love any thoughts on the best way to handle this.

Should I:
* Say, "sorry... I looked at the actual spell and we've totally broken the game, moving forward we go by the book."
* Give my BBEGs the ability to cast slow and negate the spell as soon as the PCs drop it on themselves?
* Give my BBEGs the ability to cast broken haste to teach the PCs what pain is (They will likely fight a dragon this Friday...)
* Modify the house rule to take the edge off without dragging it all the way back to the rule as written? (e.g. two spells only if making a full attack, or extra move or attack action, but not an extra spell)

Have any of you run into similar situations? What did you do?

PartyPanda

Option 1: Definitely the most straightforward way of handling it and the one I personally would go with as a GM. You can bet that if a player found figured out that they were playing a certain ability wrong they would appeal to you to change it. It's easy enough to break 3.5 by the rules without you helping :)

Option 2: Only works if your OK with the players having the ability to gank the minions, otherwise it gets a little "wtf??" when every bad guy suddenly has the ability to counteract them (which it does sound like you want to do). If restricted to solely to BBEG then you can play it off as "the party's reputation has preceded them!"

Option 3: Sounds like it will be a once in awhile lesson rather than a permanent fix. Otherwise you run into the same "everyone can do it" problem as in option 2.

Option 4: Looks OK on its face but has the potential to come back and bite you in the butt even worse if it ends up breaking your game in an entirely different way. Then you risk having the change the rule *again,* and then it could feel like the you're being punitive because the players are using your house rules against you. At least if you change it back to the original rule it it can't be perceived as arbitrary.

~The Panda

Bathlarper

You may be too deep in to change things now. I'd go with a mix of options 2 and 3 just to level the playing field. Alternatively you could build a major encounter around enemies using haste, deliberately kick the players asses and use the session as an excuse to go back to the book rules which are pretty nasty even without granting extra actions. Of course that way you'll have to be careful not to TPK your party.

DarkMagus

This is tricky, let us know what you decide to do because I'm clueless. Usually I just let players know that any and all rules agreed upon during game will be used consistently during that session but then can be looked up or DM overridden after a session, which would only change future instances of that rule. Your situation is much harder because of the social context of not wanting to disappoint or tick off your players/friends with a perceived unfairness. Good luck!

FemmeLegion

My first reaction is a mix of 2 and 3.

When I was in the Living Greyhawk campaign, they had to take away access to certain items in the game because they were giving players obscene advantages. The way they presented it in my area (which was analogous to the Bandit Kingdoms) was that if *we* could use Divine Spell Power + karma beads to get caster level bonuses, so could the High Clergy of Iuz. If we thought we were badass throwing around level 20 Dictums, imagine what they'd be like throwing around level 25 Blasphemies.

For good or ill, the rule change was presented to us as "we could kill you with the RAWs if we wanted to".

gnunn

Yeah, I raised the question to my gf (also one of my players) in a sort of "hey look what I noticed!" way and her response was basically, go ahead and switch to the rule as written as long as your okay with player revolt.

I sort of feared that might be the reaction... looks like it might be time to give the players a view from the other side of the broken rule.

cgregory

If you keep the extra standard action with haste. There is still the rule of limiting spell casters to casting only 1 spell per round.

"A spell with a casting time of 1 free action doesn

Jake

I'd strongly recommend Option 1. Honesty is generally the best policy, after all. However, in order to make it not feel punitive, I'd suggest telling your players something along the lines of "I've discovered we've been using Haste incorrectly, and it's broken the game. I don't want to punish you guys or anything, so while we will be changing to the correct rule, the change won't come into effect until..." and name something a session or two down the road, like "the end of this module" or "the next time you level up" or "once you've returned to town" or whatever. Then they have time to think about adjusting strategies, and it doesn't feel you're springing it on them all sudden-like. I'd also allow any spellcaster who bought Haste on the strength of the incorrect rule to swap it out for something else, if the player in question so desires.

If your players aren't grown up enough to accept that, you can offer instead to have the current house rule stand... but point out that because it is so wildly powerful, all the gameworld NPCs would be idiots to not use the same thing against the PCs at every opportunity, as well as to devise ways to counter the stratagem. Make it clear that your PCs should absolutely expect the same trick to be used against them pretty much every encounter, since in a world with that spell available, it'd be as common a tactic as "let's hit our enemies with our swords." If they still demand to keep the house rule, then they've done so in a fully informed way, and you can claim the moral high ground when the baddies rip the PCs to shreds before the PCs know what's happening.

twiggyleaf

Gnunn

I find that players are usually quite OK with moving from a House Rule to the Standard Rule. I am sure if you describe your reasons well enough and give a couple of examples, then your players will respect your opinion and carry on with the revised rule in play.

twigs

Poutine_Paladin

I'd go with option f. (not that I was even keeping track)

"Look, guys, we've been playing this rule wrong, and you all must see that because you've been taking advantage of it, so we've got to come up with a compromise." Sort of what Jake was saying, when he pointed out that "because it is so wildly powerful, all the gameworld NPCs would be idiots to not use the same thing against the PCs at every opportunity, as well as to devise ways to counter the stratagem" so let's get it figured out as a team and figure out the best course of action here. It's unreasonable to think that you're the only ones who've been genius enough to figure out that this is how the rule works, but a broken rule working against you is seriously gonna piss you off if I start using it for the other guys. Lets figure it out as a group, shall we?

Generally, this is actually a good thing in a few ways. It lets your players know that you are paying attention to the game and are trying to improve it for the benefit of everyone...it lets them be involved in that improvement...and it engages them in the world to a deeper degree as well, knowing that their "out of game" decisions help/hinder the moves of their foes, right? Everyone needs to be on the same page, no matter what page they're on and no matter what book they're in.

Hardhead

I would pitch it to them as more fun. Tell them you want more variety in spell options, and that one choice that's too good is no fun at all. Futhermore, that's just how the rules are. Sorry, it was a mistake, but you don't want the game to be so easy that's it's not fun, do you? And, really, with you all getting extra actions it means to be balanced I have to give all the enemies a way to negate it, or give them Haste themselves. Otherwise, the encounters just aren't balanced. Do you want all the badguys to have Haste too? I mean, the BBEG would be stupid not to have a wizard around to cast it on them, as powerful it is in this universe.