Duskreign
Two of my players (who shall remain nameless) decided to let me know, 1.5 hours before tonight's meetup, that they had made other plans for the entire weekend. Now, neither Wyrmshadow nor Star Wars is going to be run this weekend, and I had a particularly cool session plan for both games. If I had more of a heads-up, perhaps a day or so, I might have been able to work-around the missing players for tonight's game. But alas, no. Instead, two of my players made other plans, with other, "better" friends, informed me at the last possible minute, and if I censure them or punish them for this indiscretion, I'm the one that's going to come off as a jerk.
To top it off, both of these people knew that tonight was the night that they committed to have their PAX East 2011 3-day entrance fees. I made this a stipulation because, frankly, if I am making joint travel plans with someone, I have to believe they are capable of following through on what they say they will do. If I look a man in the eye and he says he will be here, then he doesn't show because he went to a party, and has a concert to go to ALL OF THE SUDDEN (because we know how tricky those surprise concerts can be), how can I have any trust, much less respect, for such a man? How can I have faith that such a man will follow through on his promises and not flake on our planned trip in March? I ask you, fair fellows? What is a Duskreign to do when two of his wayward players seem to have no respect for the DM, the game, or the plans they made? If this was the first time this happened, I'd call it a fluke. But it is not the first time, and I fear, if this trend is left unabated, it is far from the last time this will happen.
Bah.
Who wants to sit at my table and play with me every Friday night? The one requirement is that you show me the slightest fathom of respect and not consistently disappoint me at every opportunity.
Of course, this is rhetorical, and I'm just moping. I love these guys. They just... they... aaargh!
Comments
I have made some hard decisions, though, on how to react whenever these two particular people want me to commit to anything of theirs. In fact...
Yeah. Done deal.
Don't mess with Duskreign. You get the dusk... horns...?
?
Until something stops the cycle.
I just don't know...
If the player is not present, then neither is their PC. Hence no experience or treasure is gained by that PC for that session. Moreover, the player, not the DM, is responsible for coming up with a plausible in-game explanation (to the rest of the party of PCs) as to why their PC was MIA that session. In lieu of such an explanation (or if the explanation is deemed inadequate), the party might look on this PC as a deserter, and it would be within their rights to abandon the PC. If the party should choose to boot out the Player's PC, I'd allow the player to role up a new PC at 1 level lower than his current level.
Those are my thoughts at any rate.
Cheers,
-Arsheesh
Had too much typed so now I'm going to summarize.
Thats a tough situation to be in, I've been in similar situations. The problem is that the DM wants to run the "game" (which is more than a game to the DM because of all the time and effort put in to it) more like an event, and the players see the "game" as a game, or just as a time to hang out with friends. When players treat it to casually then the DM gets burned, but when the DM makes it feel like work or school (attendance, homework, no fooling around, minimal table talk, etc...) then the players don't have fun and get burned.
There needs to be a balance. Good diplomancy is needed. Thats when you need the magic phrase WWPD.
_What would Picard do?_
That's my two copper pieces.
Good luck!
When I am planning a session of my game, I try very hard to ensure that every PC is going to have some opportunity to shine. Every character has their own, individual story that they are the hero of, and in every session, I make sure that these stories exist and intertwine with one another. Someone backing out at the last second is akin to someone tugging on a stray thread in a garment. Sometimes, the thread will break off clean, and really, no damage done. Other times, the whole damn thing unravels.
I have already written one of the players in question. I am hoping he gets the message and tells me where he thinks we should go from here. I agree... it's a game, not a job. However, we're adults, not children. When we say we are going to do something, and consistently fail to live up to what we say, as adults, we have to be willing to face up to the consequences. More to the point, I have to be willing to mete out said consequences.
Now, in circumstances where you've got to, for lack of a better word, write someone out of a sequence, that can be rather tough. Not knowing the entire makeup of the group, or how things work together, I can only make a few stabs at suggestions. Perhaps that in-game segment can be delayed, or perhaps the circumstances altered? Something that requires the presence of X to activate can simply become a side-quest for the others betterment? I understand that it's a delicate balancing act to make sure everyone has time to shine. Something I'm not always great at, but planning has never been my strong suit.
I'm just spitballing ideas here, but this is what I've come up with. Say that one character has a history regarding a lost peoples, and in the dungeon they're currently in contains a secret suite of rooms that fleshes out that story a bit more. Now the Party, being the Party, will invariably find those rooms, but they don't have to know their original purpose. Instead of Awesome Story Exposition rooms, maybe they contain some sort of awesome-special Party Challenge, that plays to the current party's strengths? (Or even their weaknesses, depending on how you want the mood of the encounter to be.. defeating a deadly opponent with no healer can be a rewarding thing, and somewhat scary... defeating a magician with no counter-magic, likewise. A group of melee fighters vs. a squad of archers? Tactics abound!) It's a bit of a carrot-onna-stick approach. The people who show get the Awesome Party Challenge and associated rewards. The stick doesn't even need to factor in. For some people, the fact that there *is* a carrot makes the need for a stick go away.
Maybe, for the time being, until these issues get resolved, it may be best to continue as you have been, but work their storylines separately - if they show up, the bit you worked on can get stuck on. If not, there's no need for reweaving the fabric. It's like building a sweater with a detachable third arm. Yeah, 95% of the time, people that wear it will only have two, and nobody will notice the third opening (because you concealed it, you clever man, you.) But when someone with three arms puts the shirt on, it fits like a glove (more or less... probably some seams showing, but hey, at least the train keeps on moving!)
I hope this helps - I know it doesn't make the situation suck any less, but the only way I could do that is if the open seat at your table wasn't just a metaphor :) (That, and I'd have to be a bit more proximal to you, I imagine.)
Rase - The problem I have is this. Everyone is together in session X. In session X+1, players 3 and 4 are missing, thus forcing me to either use them as npcs or say "they are staying behind" or "you lost track of them, and have no idea where they went." In session X+2, player 3 is back, but player 4 is gone again. Now, depending on what I did in X+1, I have to work around that and explain, somehow, how Player 3 wound up catching up with the group. They don't stand still, you see. It's like trying to catch a particularly clever/stubborn fish, run a few hundred miles downstream, and release it back in the river at the exact moment the rest of its school would have gotten there to begin with. Also, in the last session, Wrath, the Hellgod of Vengeance, decided that he's pissed at the three Elder Gods and is essentially planning to storm heaven in order to reclaim an Infernal soul that was not theirs to take to begin with. So, the party is going from Hell to Heaven. How do I explain Player 3 or 4's sudden appearance? Or do I just let them sit there and listen to the tail end of what they were missing (because that is exactly what I intend to do). Thanks for the help, dude. You're the best.
gnunn - I agree about balancing diplomacy and discipline, and thanks for all your insight into this matter. I was much angrier about this two days ago than I am right now, and as the week moves onward, I my anger shall continue to fade unabated. As that happens, the scales will balance themselves out, I am sure. For now, I am planning on treating every incident as an isolated occurrence, rather than taking a running tally and meting out punishment all at once. I think that's as diplomatic as I can be, considering the situation. In this case, their characters will just be sitting there in Hell while everyone else is off picking fistfights with Archangels in Heaven, having all the fun.
Gaaran - You made some good points, and I appreciate your candor. For my planned punitive action to matter, the players in question would have to be at least marginally invested. I know one of them in particular has much more interest in remaining at least civil, if not actively participatory in the group, and thus even if his interest isn't sufficient to make the punishment potent, he will be willing to fake it. The other player, I am not sure about anymore, and I am considering cutting loose altogether if this situation continues as it has over the past few months. I took stock of the fact that in the past six months, considering of course that we had a death in the family, Star Wars had exactly five sessions played, and Wyrmshadow seven. In six months, 13 sessions of game-play equates to one session every 2 to 3 weeks, and considering that we play Wyrmshadow and Star Wars on Friday and Saturday consecutively, that's even more depressing. Besides the obvious, grief-driven pause in play, nearly every break in the game had to do with either of these two players, with one or two incidents of illness sprinkled in there as an understandable/forgivable excuse.
Arsh - My initial reaction to this weekend was to pull myself out of contention to play a game one of these players is planning, as I felt that I shouldn't commit to his game if he can't honor his commitment to mine. It was a knee-jerk reaction, and one I kind of regret, now. Honestly, I have been DMing for so long, and I really, really want to freaking play for a change. This player is one of the few in the group willing to try to run something, and now I feel like I can't play in his game, the one chance I might have to wear the player hat once again. Also, I would love to say that a PC isn't there on a whim, but my desire for story cohesiveness makes that impossible. I could not wait until the next week (if they even show up then) to explain why they were gone from the group. Also, shoe-horned excuses for player absences make my blood boil, because that's time, effort, and creativity squandered on something pointless and eminently avoidable. I could use that time, effort, and creativity to add some dynamic elements to the current situation. Essentially, not only is their absence messing me up by making me feel like I wasted planning time on their characters' individual storylines, it causes me to stumble creatively during he session itself, which takes away from the experience for everyone who was decent enough to show up. Anyway, thanks, man. As always, you are on the same wavelength as me. My first desire was to kick them from the group, and seeing you mirror that sentiment in your post elicited a reaction from me: I shrieked "Vindication!"
Pout - Thanks, man.
In short (too late), I have a lot to be thankful for, folks. You've helped me through a particularly frustrating ordeal. I know what to do about this particular incident, and that is due largely to your support, advice, and commiserations. I am so fortunate to have friends like you, and I wish I could have you all at my table to play with me.
I also agree with much of what everyone else including you have said. There are some situations that require less diplomacy and more ultimatums/enforcement. I had a player join my current campaign "The Ilumnos Series":http://www.obsidianportal.com/campaigns/the-ilumnos-series during the 2nd chapter. He had another game he played every other week so we accomadated him by changing our schedule to every other week. One of my players even started up a world so we could still game on these off weeks. Well he played for about 3 sessions, refused to join the party in nearly every chance presented to him, and then was just "busy". He's been "busy" since last December. I'm glad we didn't wait to play for him! hahhahaha. It did screw up the world big time though. Two of my players (in real life) got married and left for a cross country road trip, only to settle in another state, right at the beginning of the very last chapter. If we hadn't played every other week for a few months because of that additional player we would have likely been able to wrap things up so they could see the end of the campaign. :(
Conclusion: Real life is tricky. It calls for many Wisdom and Diplomacy checks.
If you had a girlfriend that said "Oh, sorry, you aren't interesting enough, i'm going out with guy B tonite.. but.. keep me open for next weekend, you're such a dear..."
To the curb.
These guys are using you and group for entertainment not for the group as a team, but for themselves.
Don't do it.
Jobs, work, emergencies, sick, even, some other thing "Best friend's car broke down, I gotta help him out." etc.
One time as DM I had my car break down, blown hose, and some other things, the whole group canceled the game, and came to help me out, then we got pizzas that I bought, and we picked it up next week.
But blowing off the group.. nope. And I would not reward by playing in their games.
Good luck with it.
Vandor - That's the real sting of it, honestly. The game is NOT the thing. It's not the characters, the adventures, the crits and mishaps, but the people that matter to me. They didn't show up, but those of us who did enjoyed one another's company nonetheless. We watched a movie, ate some snacks, shot the s#!t with one another, and basically did everything we normally do on game night other than gaming, just extending it across the entire night instead of condensing it to the time before the game starts and after the session ends. Don't get me wrong, I am mad that I planned for things to happen for their characters, made them central to my overall plot for the night, and they didn't show. That pissed me off, but what really irritates me is that their plans with us, the group they have been hanging with for over 2 years now, matter so little to them that they will use absolutely any, tenuous excuse to break said plans. The fact is, they blew off having fun with us to have fun with other, "better" friends, and that freaking infuriated me. Thanks for your kind words, though. I have considered cutting them loose, but I am leaving that in their hands. Neither of them has spoken to me, even though I have made an effort to reach out to both of them since this all went down. They probably didn't think it would be a big deal, which honestly is just another part of the problem. As for playing in this one player's game, I am debating it. A week ago, I would have been 100% in favor of it. A few days ago: 100% against it. Now, I am fluttering around 50-50.
Three of us, including myself, have run games for the group, which I think is a big help in this area - when you understand what it takes to run a game, I think you become a better and more respectful player. If one of these guys is planning to GM, it may be just what he needs to learn to respect your efforts.
Anyway, I hope things are working out for you, and that these players shape up.
"I met a traveller from an antique land....."
CotM May 2016: Mysteria: set in Wolfgang Baur’s MIDGARD.
Previous CotM Aug 2012: Shimring: High Level Multiplanar Campaign
Inner Council Member
Now it looks like I'll be dealing with a short cast for my game tonight. I have one player in the midst of finals who gave me plenty of advanced notice. I have another who ran into a high-priority crisis at work yesterday and doesn't think it will be resolved by this evening. One of my players realized he forgot about a meeting he had this evening across town (He plans to be at game night, but will be late.) Then I got word that one of my other players is under the weather and not sure if he will be up to playing. Granted, all my players have completely legitimate reasons for missing the game, but one side-effect that I hadn't considered is that now the players who can make it are wavering a bit on whether they want to go ahead with the session.
Because my group only plays 2 days a month at between 3 & 4 hours of play time a session, I am loathe to cancel a session. As such, my mind is abuzz with ways to effectively run tonight's game without over-stressing players who are already feeling run down from overfull schedules.
Fortunately, the group just beat up a BBEG last session and rescued Mr. McGuffin. I'm leaning towards the following rough flow for the evening.
6-7pm arrive, eat and discuss whether to continue a sweep of the dungeon or to get out of dodge.
7pm play starts
-possibly sweep the dungeon
-exit the dungeon
-exit the hostile area around the dungeon (depending on the vibe of the room, I may adjust the level of hostility downward)
-plot development & introduction with Mr. McGuffin (I find story time to be less stressful than dungeon crawls... plus, reveals are fun! I have 2 or 3 that will happen tonight.)
-IDENTIFY & DIVVY UP LOOT!!!! (Players love that crap!)
-Shop and restock with newly acquired income (Players ALSO love this crap!)
9:30 or 10pm end
Anyway, I just totally went off on a self-serving tangent when I meant to say... scheduling sucks, and the holidays tend to make it more difficult.
Hey, Gnunn, I'd be happy to fill in for one of your players tonight, you just have to come pick me up. I'm in British Columbia, Canada...I can send you directions if you need them. Haha. Not to laugh at crappy circumstances others are facing, just keeping the mood light on a somewhat depressing thread.
Which reminds me of a story I heard long ago from an acquaintance: she gamed with someone who was so predictable in his actions that when he suddenly had to leave the campaign, the other players were able to put together a table and roll a d20 to determine what the character would do at any given time...AND IT WORKED. Okay, the character ended up climbing a ficus plant, but apparently the player was fond of having the character climb trees at every opportunity and so it was plausible.
We've supplemented other geek-related activities like board games (Arkham Horror, Settlers of Catan, Talisman, Dominion, etc.), movies (LoTR trilogy, Hawk the Slayer, Conan The Barbarian, etc.), or figure painting when someone has to cancel abruptly.
My "Cthulhu Supremus Est":http://www.obsidianportal.com/campaigns/cthulhusupremusest campaign was created to provide geeking in the event that a Pathfinder regular wasn't available. It's a great change-of-pace and fills the void for a week.
We've had very good luck in the nearly six years we've been playing, and very rarely are there any hard feelings over abrupt scheduling issues. You just need to have an appropriate outlet for geekiness and not take it personally.
Just my two cents...
:D
So, as many of you know, my party is set to get their own keep/HQ tonight, and they know this and are excited about it. I have spent the past two weeks off drawing maps, brushing up on and simplifying the various purchase prices associated with the keep and all the usual DM hullabaloo. Due to my own excitement about the upcoming adventure, I even went above and beyond in the map & extras department.
* Now, out of a group of 7, we have one player on a multi-month hiatus for school. _Totally understandable. Life comes first._
* Earlier this week, one of my other players realizes that tomorrow she will be chaperoning her class on an annual ski trip that she is required to attend. Therefore, she will need to leave early tonight. _Okay, I can work with that. The first part of the evening will be spent dealing with the new keep, after which there will be a natural break point when she can take off._ She thanks me for being so accommodating.
* Relevant side note: On Tuesday night, my G/F stayed up until midnight baking homemade piroshkies for everyone for our game night meal. This is information that was in-turn relayed to my players.
* Yesterday afternoon: The husband of the teacher lets the group know that some jerk siphoned his gas tank and that, since his wife was going to leave the session early anyway, he planned to just sit it out entirely. _Sigh... Totally not his fault that he fell victim to a predatory a**hat (like a cloaker, but for your head... or butt?) I do kind of wish he wasn't so fatalistic about it. He could have asked others to give him a ride._
* This morning: I make my usual offer to pick up another player who is without a car, and since husband, who is his usual ride home is without transport, I also offer to take him home at the end of the night. Then, thinking about it, I mention that if husband can make it to my place, I can give him a ride home as well.
* Then I get a response from the teacher/wife saying that she is considering not coming at all because she hasn't been home before 8:30 all week and is looking at another 14hr day tomorrow. _gritting my teeth: Life comes first and it is totally understandable to want a night to recoup._
So, my selfish childish side is butt-sore that half of my players will be missing for the reception of the biggest award the group has received in two years of adventuring and that my GF put a TON of work into tonight's meal, but my reasonable side keeps repeating that real life comes first, the circumstances were out of my players' control and that exhausted players suck the energy away from the table anyway.
Bottom line, I just needed to vent that in writing. Our group will still have a blast tonight, the game will probably flow faster with only four players at the table and the absent players will miss out on setting the initial direction of the keep. Also, when they hit the adventure trail again aboard the gnomish airship, I can easily have them sit out of combat by justifying it as airsickness.
I wish I could say things have gotten dramatically better for me, but they haven't really improved all that much. However, one consolation I have been able to take is that, for the most part, none of this is my fault. From the sounds of things, you have made every effort to make this happen, and as you put it, "circumstances imposed by outside people/forces" have cost you the opportunity to do what you have been planning so hard to do this week.
Dude, I could not possibly be more in-your-shoes.
I, too, work really hard to make every session of my game important, and like you, I have on occasion created a situation in which I really NEEDED all my players to be there in order to proceed. If even one person couldn't make it, it would mess my plans up, as well as take the wind right out of my sails. This has happened several times over the past year, and not always for good enough reasons.
You've got a good plan. You'll still have a good night. If you have time, perhaps you can conjure an opportunity to delay the keep story for one more week. However, if I were you, I wouldn't set that kind of precedent. If people can't make it, that sucks, but it has to be their problem. If they miss out, it should be their loss to bear, not yours. In the future, remember these moments, and these people, and know that circumstances like this are possible with them, Then, the next time you are planning something big, simply plan it for the reliable people and make little side-notes that say "just in case so-and-so shows up, he meets up with such-and-such and they handle yadda yadda" where yadda yadda is some tertiary assignment that you could easily say was done between sessions if they don't/can't/won't show.
Don't beat up the kid in you, gnunn! You need him.
A.) My "regular" home game that seemed about to start beck up every weekend after a month-and-a-half-or-so hiatus, only to have another uncontrollable setback
B.) My own inability to find adequate time for my recently underway online play-by-text game with various other esteemed members of Obsidian Portal (including yourself and Dusk)
Everyone (including myself) understands these uncontrollable setbacks are part of life, and like you said, Gnunn, "life comes first," but I understand your frustration. I'm only a player in both of the games I'm frustrated with, and I could imagine that being the GM of them and putting in all the prep-time (including a nice dinner) would just add to that.
The hardest part about it is, like you said, the frustration at yourself for allowing yourself to be frustrated...I completely agree. It's awkward, right? You feel how you feel, and should have the right to do so, but you also know that you shouldn't feel that way at the same time.
Booooo for internal conflict....but it IS what makes us human, I guess.
Way to look at the bright side, though, bud. You'll all still have a blast at the game, the missing players will literally be "missing out" and the ones who make it (and you) will all get more of the deliciousness produced by your GF. (Maybe you could ship me some leftovers?)
I think another reason why this seems to be a bigger issue this time than it otherwise would is that I have been putting more effort into incorporating personal plotlines & backstory tie-ins. It just so happens that both of my missing players were likely to have their individual stories advanced tonight. I can still touch on the stories from the other players' perspectives, but it will likely either cause the missing players to say, "wait, what? when did that happen?" once they get back, and if I handle these encounters via email, it will turn an otherwise subtle hint dropped during roleplay into a giant "This is something important!" red flag dulling the impact of future reveals.
I think the biggest lesson you or I or any other DM can take from things like this is to focus on the fun. It might be tough to adjust to missing players, but if you focus on the fun being had by the players who are present, things will turn out just fine.
Edit: Oh, and thanks y'all I always feel better if I can vent... and it keeps me from actually getting upset with my friends.