Base of Operations: Castle, or Airship?

gnunn

Okay fellow DMs, I would love to get some opinions about providing my PCs with a base of operations.

Here's the sitch... Over it's 2 year span, my campaign has involved a LOT of travel. My PCs have hopped from settlement to settlement and it seems to be wearing on the group a bit. Their loot is piling up now, and I've had a couple players voice frustration that they can currently only accumulate as much loot as they can carry (in their bag of holding & 3 Heward's Handy Haversacks).

I have been working towards providing them with a central base of operations for some time... even before the grumblings began to emerge.

Originally, I had planned for them to inherit a semi-ruined keep that they had previously visited. The keep is located near the driving force behind the main plot arc, and would provide an opportunity for them to engage in a different aspect of the game, namely customizing their own defensive living space as they restore the castle. The downside to offering this as their base is that their most obvious path is still an adventure arc away from returning to take control of the building.

Recently, I have been mulling over another option, which is to provide them with an airship. Their most obvious adventure path will include them as passengers on such a vessel within the next couple game sessions. My worry in this case is that an airship might completely unbalance the game. While it is less advanced than the ships described in the 3.5 Eberron campaign setting, having a mobile base of operations could still put some strain on my adventure designs. On the other hand, in order to operate said vessel, my PCs would either need to hire a crew, or start putting ranks in profession air-pirate or something.

At this point, I can honestly make either option work, and can encourage the PCs in one direction or the other by utilizing the NPC prince who they just rescued. The prince is in town researching a lost relic that can potentially save his blighted country. The current owner of the airship has a lead on and access to the rumored resting place of said artifact. However, the Prince also has troops who are loyal to him back in his home country embroiled in a civil war with his brother. These troops are based at the previously mentioned keep. I could easily have the prince request a stopover there to reassure his troops &/or retrieve a key element to recovering the relic. It's a bit of a shoehorn, but it might allow me to give my players a solid home base without over-rewarding them & potentially breaking things in their favor.

Anyone have sage advice or crack-pot theories to offer?

Dyluth

Well Gnunn, my first thought is to combine the two ideas, and have your player party inherit a magical castle kept aloft in the air by some strange and powerful forces. Obviously some rules and restrictions would have to be placed on the airship/castle to keep this from being too game breaking for the party, but I think it could easily be the best of both worlds.

Otherwise, I'd go with the airship. That's only because I'm a huge fan of mobile bases of operations in RPG's.

FrankSirmarco

While I love the idea of an airship, I think a keep/castle makes more sense. I would imagine that a mobile base-of-operations, while a hundred different kinds of cool, would quickly become a player go-to too often.

"We have to travel under that mountain, through an mind-flayer infested cave? Let's just jump in the airship and travel _over_ the mountain!"

Unless, of course, you are going to have sky-pirates attack the ship all of the time and try to plunder your players' stuff. That could be fun...

RaseCidraen

Crack-pot advice hoooooooooooo! Gnunn, on initially reading your title, my response was thus: "Airship. Duh. No question." Then, I read your post, and it's really thoughtful. So I will provide you with a thoughtful answer, good sir!

I think, in terms of practicality, a small keep would likely fit the bill, at the moment. I love airships, but they allow for too much flexibility in travel. (Flexibility is good, but what isn't good is "Oh, lets skip the bugbear dungeon and fly over the dwarf mountain and just air-drop the ring into Mount Doom." The only way to curtail it is airship captains that riot, which feels cheap, or the "Here there be dragons" defense.) If the campaign ever comes to it, I can totally see the group with an airship tethered to their more permanent keep when they return home to offload the spoils of war.

gnunn

So far, excellent advice all around, much of which has been helping to reinforce my current leanings toward giving them the keep. After all, they just dinged to level 9 which seems old enough to stay home alone, but not to go joyriding in an aerial battleship.

My DM mind is percolating on how to make the plot work. I think it will go something like this...

In his research, the Prince realized that in order to access the resting place of the relic, he will have to bring the magic key that provides access to its hiding place. Unfortunately, not knowing the significance of the key prior to his flight from his country, he left it safely stowed at his home estate... now under the control of his brother. Thus the party must recover said key before going relic hunting. The perfect base from which to launch their raid? The keep! I may even have the airship pick them up at the keep when the'yre done with the raid.

Note: The key will not actually be a key as we understand it, but some sort of magically imbued item.

gnunn

OMG! I just thought of a horrendously punny identity for the key to the relic's resting place.

The resting place of the relic is in an ancient elven citadel dedicated to the collection of arcane lore. Perhaps the key could be a golden egg (representing pre-conscious life) that must be placed in a nest in order to access the site. I could call it...





















...wait for it...












...an egg McGuffin!

Everdark

I'm gonna say go with a keep for now and maybe reward them with an airship later on at a higher level. My only concern with the keep would be that the PCs would still have to travel back and forth. Ya know? I think Rase also makes a good point about airships, though. Though great, they're easy to abuse. I guess it kinda depends on the players.

FrankSirmarco

I waited for it, gnunn.

I almost wish I hadn't.

But I couldn't help but laugh, anyway...

Duskreign

I like the idea of the keep. Have you ever played Suikoden? In that game, your character gets an old, ruined castle and as he meets and saves/recruits people, they go back to his castle and make improvements to it. At first, the improvements don't amount to much. Perhaps one of them cleans up the moat and pond on the grounds and adds a clever fishing mini-game or something, or your characters meet a cook who can make them special foods that stave off specific status effects. Then, perhaps, a librarian who can recommend useful spells to memorize, or a cartographer who can provide updated maps marked with new potential sidequest locations. Later, the keep could have even more services available: a shrine for healing, a study for learning new skills, a stable for taking out mounts, a bestiary for housing and training captured monsters, a scholar to identify found treasures, a strategist to help devise temporary stat-boosting "battle formations" for the party to use in a dire situations, a fortune teller, a metalsmith, etc...

It is a cool idea, and the airship dock at the top of the keep could just be the last addition made to the keep, toward the very end of the game.

RaseCidraen

I like the idea of adapting Suikoden, Dusk! It's a better system than NWN2, which really, the keep you get there is just a glorified cash cow/money pit. Darn it. Now I want to play Suikoden. WHY DO YOU FILL MY MIND WITH AWESOME IDEAS THAT I CAN'T DO ANYTHING ABOUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

FemmeLegion

Since I don't know your players, I'm not going to speculate on whether they would try to "break the game" if they had one. However, I think the most logical and reasonable time to give them an airship would be just slightly before they wouldn't necessarily need one.

It sounds cruel when I put it like that, which suits me, but to clarify: at what level could an optimized character get ahold of a Mass Fly spell (or its equivalent in your system)? That's the level at which you should consider giving them an airship - maybe a little before if they've been extra nice. Then it's still a very nice perk because either they didn't have such a character at all, or if they did it now frees up that character's personal magics for other things. And at the same time, you can no longer argue that they would "break the game" with it because they were two clicks away from "breaking the game" by using flight spells to go everywhere anyway.

Poutine_Paladin

So it sounds like the consensus is definitely leaning towards the keep, and I'll put in my two-bits as well. Unless you're willing to reign in/discourage abuse of the airship (as rase put it, by captains that riot, which feels cheap, or the

HerrSpielmeister

"Egg McGuffin"? Oh, *groan*. Here I thought you were going to go with something a little less painful, like "The Nest Egg", but you surpassed even my depraved imagination on that one.

When I first read your question, I had the same thought that Dyluth expressed: a flying castle. I immediately remembered that old Larry Elmore Dragonlance painting with the castle on an enormous flying boulder rising up over the horizon as the horse-riders rode away from it...

Anyway, if the prospect of having too much mobility is a problem for your future plotting, then you definitely shouldn't go that route. The one thought that did occur to me which might offset that a little is if the controlling mechanism for the flying castle were either super-cryptic or broken, so that the PCs wouldn't have a great deal of control over where it drifted to. But better to keep the PCs' options manageable than to introduce something which could break your game.

As for a stationary, "traditional" castle, depending on your players it sounds like an idea that they could really invest themselves in. Echoing the Suikoden-inspired suggestions, along with the restoration of the castle and the improvement of its defenses, there is the question of upkeep: the attracting of peasants to work the surrounding land, castle staff to keep things running in the castle's day-to-day affairs, and so on. I really like Duskreign's suggestion of noticeable, game-rule-based bonuses and privileges based on what amenities the PCs add to their castle.

On the political landscape, there might be those loyalist soldiers/knights who want some tangible reward for their loyalty (i.e. parcels of land), who may appeal to the PCs to be granted management of a fief of land on their holdings (in the name of the Prince, of course), or become competitive toward them because they think they should have been given the keep instead of the upstart and possibly common-born PCs...

This whole question reminded me that back in the early days of Basic/Expert D&D, Level 9-10 was when PC classes would begin building their strongholds/towers/etc. So that does strike me as an appropriate time to give these guys a home base.

Duskreign

Who else wants to play Suikoden again? Hell, that would make a really cool basis for a tabletop RPG; the 108 Stars of Destiny are calling me.... I need to ponder this further.

HerrSpielmeister, you may be the newest addition to the honored list: Folks That Inspire Duskreign To Do Cool Stuff.

RaseCidraen

I want to play Suikoden for the first time. I'm taking my Suikoden sticky note with me. I must learn more of it's mystery.

Duskreign

I am currently whistling the "Gregminster Theme!":http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCME4Wxvj4k

HerrSpielmeister

Glad to oblige, Duskreign!

I'm with Rase. I've not played Suikoden before. Apparently this is something I need to remedy.

Poutine_Paladin

I agree...this sound like a cool game. I'm not huge on vids, but I like the ones I like...and this sounds like one of those. Is it an online thing, or platform thing, or what?

Duskreign

It was a PS1 game from bakkinadey. It was a cool combination of isometric six-member party turn-based roleplaying, rock-paper-scissors style massive war games, society-building (a la the aforementioned keep), and army building (finding and recruiting a total of 108 members of your army, building them up in levels and gear, equipping them with specific runes and leveling the runes themselves to unleash new magical spells and attack powers). Also, it had a cool teamwork feature if you had certain party members in your fighting group.

Plus, the story was fantastically charming , the music was terrific, and the sequel (Suikoden 2) was arguably the best rpg on the original Playstation (and yes, that includes FF Tactics, a very close second.)

Poutine_Paladin

Damn. Can I get it for original XBOX (I actually have one of those) or was it a Playstation only game? Are there still PS1's around in pawn shops that I could pick up for 20 bucks to explore this newfound game? And will I be able to find the game itself? Dammit, now I really want to find out about this game. Thanks again people. (sarcasm doesn't come across in text, dammit again)

Duskreign

No, it is only available for the original Playstation. I think you can get it on the PSP also, and possibly download it to play on a PS3.

Besides that, there are no (legal) ways to play it.

gnunn

Okay, so I've started designing the keep. Yes, they visited it previously, but it was an ally's makeshift base of operations so I only provided a basic description rather than a comprehensive map. I am in the process of creating a more concrete layout of the structure. So, here are my thoughts on establishing the fixer-upper state of the keep.

When the party visited previously, the keep had just been liberated from a bunch of kobold squatters who left it in shambles. The allied troops have cleaned out the bodies and general refuse and restored some basic function.

The keep currently has:
a functional kitchen & dining hall
functional barracks for 10 troops (It originally had barracks for 30, but two of the buildings were damaged and cleared out)
A storage room
Servants quarters
A room in the basement with a permanent teleportation circle
50% of its original exterior wall

In essence, this will provide them with a place to eat, a place to store their gear and a place to sleep.

There are also several rooms that were functional prior to the kobold infestation. These include:
A smithy (looted. Will need to be resupplied with tools and a smith to function)
An armory (looted and requiring repair to the door and walls)
A stable (burned to the ground, will need to be rebuilt)
1 master bedroom & 4 other bedrooms (require refurnishing and basic repairs)
3 tower-top guard posts (2 are functional, one has been damaged by neglect along with the barracks underneath it)
1 library (looted by the kobolds for firewood & kindling)
1 barbican (mostly repaired by the allied troops but needs a new gate)

When I tell them about the damaged rooms, I'll just give them basic descriptions of the space, unless it has obvious things like a forge in the middle of it, or horseshoes strewn about. This way they can renovate the damaged rooms to be whatever they choose. When the party takes control of the keep, I plan to give them a bit of discretionary cash, a basic squad of 10 soldiers + an officer to guard it, plus a castellan/butler & a couple servants. These initial troops provide barely enough to keep watch as a skeleton crew, but if they renovate some of the other barracks, they can quickly begin to build their personal forces. There are a number of valuable resources in the valley where the keep stands that can also be used to earn money and automate the keep's maintenance after an initial investment. There are forested hillsides, ore in the now abandoned kobold warrens beneath the castle, and a nearby mountain pass that could be cleared as a trade route. There is also an existing refugee camp at the foot of the castle that will transition into a permanent town as the region becomes more secure/industrious & which will serve as a source of new recruits & staff.

Anyway, those are my random thoughts on where stuff is going... I've been pondering ways for specific improvements to provide direct benefits to the keep & party. eg. A functioning armory & smithy will allow the guards to begin leveling and gaining better gear as they train and gain experience. A library provides research benefits, or possibly blueprints for siege engines etc. and converting the teleport room into a fully functioning magic lab with a resident mage might produce a quota of scrolls &/or potions each month.

I have to admit, I get excited just developing the starting point and the rules for the keep, I hope my players will get just as much of a kick out of it.

Duskreign

Ah, that sounds freaking terrific. :)

Poutine_Paladin

I also hope your players find it as awesome as you've described it, and are willing to explore it as extensively as you have. I'd certainly like to.

RaseCidraen

Gnunn,

This sounds awesomely similar to NWN2, but much, much better. In that, the castle was really just a place to dump money into/pump money out of. I think this place will reveal many many sidequests/interesting things that require your players attention - What happens when the warren runs out of ore? They'd have to find some way of securing another deposit, perhaps from a place that's a bit more dangerous, but yields some nifty stuff. I've always been a big fan of, say, a large, unexplained room. Perhaps blocked off by some rubble that takes a while to displace. Then, they come into a rather sizable blank slate - without a clear function. As a player, I would be mystified, and try and find out what it was used for: great hall? Perhaps a courtroom? Or maybe I'd forget the mystery, and turn it into something even more dangerous...

I like the idea for the library - it also may have interesting books on the occasional Foe of the Week, whether it be Dragons or some obscure monster the DM made up out of a hat. Blueprints always help. I like the idea of a reserve of potions/scrolls, and potentially, if they get a more powerful mage in the, at higher levels, minor magic items and wands to make up for obvious deficiencies in the party.

gaaran

Sounds pretty awesome Gnunn, I did something similar in one of my games a while back, and it was pretty well received. With the money and fame they brought to the keep, it actually became a thriving community, farmers and such building around the lands because the keep offers protection, and then others building taverns and shops to cater to the farmers and so on. It's now a fairly large town in my world, a couple hundred years later. If you haven't, take a look at the stronghold builder's guidebook, while it's not perfect, there are a lot of good ideas for stuff to add to keeps, both mundane and magical.

Poutine_Paladin

Agree. Stronghold builder's guidebook is a pretty cool resource for projects like this, at least for specifics on costs/time to build/staffing issues, etc. Also, just to get your mind whirling about possibilities.

gnunn

Yeah, having never played Suikoden, my main inspiration for the keep's function has been NWN2. My hope is that once the massive 2 year long (so far!) serial campaign arc concludes, my players can use the keep as a jumping off point for more episodic game play. That being said, there are still about 4 adventures left in the main plot arc before that happens.

One idea I've been wanting to do for a while is to work some of my players' former characters back into the game as allied NPCs. The main story will hopefully intersect with the full-blown civil war brewing in the country where the keep stands, thus making friendly reinforcements a desirable commodity. Lately bringing back former PCs, has morphed into an idea that each player could eventually have more than one PC based at the castle. At the start of an adventure, they pick who they want to play and set off. Several of my players who have switched characters have said, "Man, I wish I was playing otherguy in this situation." Maybe an episodic play style with a central base could allow for just that. Of course, I would have to house rule that everyone gets only one character per adventure.

igornappovich

If you ever do decide to revisit the airship/ mobile base idea later... or for any other DMs out there thinking about it... I had a lot of success with a campaign where the players eventually were granted access to what was basically an ancient artifact frozen in an iceberg. An elemental order that one of the PCs belonged to was crucial to the story arc for the first few segments of the campaign. As that storyline was wrapping up, the order asked the party if they would be willing to seek out the source of magical corruption affecting the earth element. When they agreed, the order took them to a secluded glacier on the far north of their continent, and started a massive fire ritual going. Long story short, they melted down the glacier to reveal--- a boat. However, if you had the right kind of stamina you could FLY the boat for short periods of time (remember spelljammers? a bit like that but not quite).

ANyway, the old boat was covered in runes, had some kind of device/ weaponry on each side (fore, aft, port and starboard), and had a set number of hit points it could take before needing to be serviced by master dwarven craftsmen. The relic was so old, and the runes were in a language that no one understood, that it became a source of mystery for the players to figure out over time. And the requirement that damage be fixed only by the most skilled artificers also was a nice DM 'trick' to have up my sleeve.

So in one fell swoop, I created story continuity from the first part of the campagin (lower and mid level) to the second part of the campaign (higher level pcs) while giving the party stuff to figure out, play with, try to drive/ fly / steer, protect from bandits and beasties, and much much more.

It was easy enough to keep it from becoming an overbalancing issue; it wasnt a battleship it was basically just a souped up ocean warship with some extra hps and some slightly better (but way more mysterious) weapons. If they were sailing on the ocean and 3 warships came along, they would be toast. They didnt abuse the flying because it cost the 'pilot' mental energy to move the ship that way.

Eventually, as the players journeyed far and wide, they discovered all of the mysteries of the ship, its makers, the ancient kingdom the makers were from, and how the druidic order ended up with it. The players started taking skills so they could augment the ship, they accumulated an elite crew over time (including some backstabbers and double crossing plants from their nemesis of course) and generally had a lot of fun with it. Id say probably 75% of the time it was a normal ship, but they would fly it when necessary.

I had a house rule that in general, when the party left the ship each player was allowed to have their character bring along one henchman from their 'crew'. This led to a lot of fun combinations and hand wringing from the players about how best to utilize their crewmen. Of course, when the ship itself was attacked it was all hands on deck time, and you better believe that players who invest that much time and effort (not to mention skills) into a vessel will go to almost ANY length to make sure their 'baby' doesnt get destroyed.

All that, and a very convenient DM device for :
gold sinks (you just pissed off the only dwarven artisan in the whole city, his fees have now tripled)
planting enemy npcs/ spies amongst the crew/ sailors/ replacement fodder
plot hooks (your character finally has deciphered the runes inscribed on the navigation table below decks)
Blackmail (we have siezed the ship tied to our docks, you must now pay the royal tariff to leave the port)
etc etc

Trust me, I am barely scratching the surface here. Not to naysay the keep- those are badass also. I just like the portable base because it gives me a lot more freedom to let the players think they have a lot of freedom (think about it for a second or two). You can use the convenient DM hooks/ tricks tied into the boat to manipulate the story while simultaneously allowing the party to feel like they have total freedom to do pretty much whatever they want in the campaign world.

Duskreign

Igornappovich, I like the cut of your jib! It is an excellent jib, and it is perfectly cut. Well done!

I can appreciate both concepts, and I have nothing against an airship/mobile base. I think it really depends a lot on what the GM is going for. I really like the fact that your premise includes concepts that tether the players imperceptibly. As a DM, I enjoy letting the players see more freedom than they actually have.

gnunn

Dewd!

Great, now I'm all conflicted!... I'll probably still go with the keep, because I've started putting time into the mapping and mechanics. Also, my group has a paladin with a unicorn mount and getting normal horses, much-less opinionated sentient horses, onto a flying vessel can be a pain in the ass... Though, now I envision an A-Team esque scenerio of the unicorn saying ala B.A. Barrakas, "I ain't gettin' on no flyin' boat!" and then the party drugging his apples and lifting him on board.