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      CommentAuthorgaaran
    • CommentTimeMay 6th 2010 edited
     

    So I stumbled upon the idea for achievements in a DnD game and I thought the idea sounded like a lot of fun. I’m working coming up with a list of achievements (I’ve written a couple and found a couple ideas in various forums) and a successful way of implementing them in my game at the moment, and you can see that work at http://www.obsidianportal.com/campaign/melekar/wikis/house-rules If anyone has any ideas of suggestions for implementing them, or for achievement that would be fun, I’d love some ideas, and if anyone likes this idea and would like to use these in their game, that’d be awesome too. I look forward to hearing some of your ideas.

    Edit: Here’s where I saw some ideas http://www.loremaster.org/general-topics/1664-achievements-d-d.html and this campaign was the first place I saw the idea (much different implementation, but similar concept).

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      CommentAuthorJimTriche
    • CommentTimeMay 6th 2010
     

    Great idea!

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      CommentAuthorgaaran
    • CommentTimeMay 6th 2010 edited
     

    I’ve updated the list of achievements, there are now twice as many, but I’d like plenty more, if you guys can think of any good ones, I’d love to hear your ideas.

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      CommentAuthorsandman
    • CommentTimeMay 6th 2010
     

    I may have something that could be useful for you Garaan. In my campaign I use Adventure Points, basically they are points players get for out-of-game achivements (like coming on time to sessions, or writing a background here on Obsidian Portal).

    My campaign is in spanish, but the list is in english so it shouldn’t be a problem: Adventure Points

    The way I use them is that the benefits they get can be saved and used whenever they want as a free action (D&D 4E btw). There are 100 benefits, so you’ll probably find at least some of them interesting enough for your campaign.

    Hope that helps.

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      CommentAuthorarsheesh
    • CommentTimeMay 6th 2010
     

    Yeah I am utilizing essentially the same adventure point system as Sandman, though I have called them prestige points in my campaign. I wanted to encourage my players to become more actively involved in helping to build our campaign site (e.g. adding character bios and keeping character journals, that sort of thing), so I borrowed the idea of a point based award system from Onsilius. Basically, you accumulate points and then can either “use” them each session (the points are not permanently spent but refresh the next session) to gain some small in-game advantage, or “burn” them (those points are gone baby) to do something even more heroic. At first my players didn’t seem to care much about the system. However two sessions ago when in the midst of a gritty battle, they discovered just how useful they can be and have been stepping up their contributions to the site in order to gain access to more points.

    Cheers,
    -Arsheesh

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      CommentAuthorgaaran
    • CommentTimeMay 6th 2010
     

    Thanks for the replies guys, I think Arsheesh, that I’m going to combine your method with the one i’m devising. A rechargeable pool of prestige points for out of game contributions, and a list of in game achievements that are only usable during that encounter/session or unique achievements that grant permanent small bonuses. And Sandman, thanks for the link, looking through your names of rewards gives me plenty of ideas for new achievements. I’ll post again with the updated system.

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      CommentAuthorgaaran
    • CommentTimeMay 6th 2010
     

    Okay, I have totally updated the achievement system. There are milestones which can be gained multiple times, achievements that can only be gained once, and prestige points that are granted based on OOC contributions. http://www.obsidianportal.com/campaign/melekar/wikis/house-rules I think this is going to be how I do the system, but I’m still eager for suggestions.

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      CommentAuthorJimTriche
    • CommentTimeMay 6th 2010
     

    I’m still bouncing this around in my head. Shadowrun uses a Karma system already, so implementation would be easy and we wouldn’t have to keep track of a new ‘stat’ as it were. I’m trying to think of a reward system that would be fair for all my players, since a couple don’t go online much to mess with the wiki (though they read it dutifully on Friday before the game).

    A lot of the uses on there are also already in the Shadowrun game system, so I won’t have to come up with much there. But maybe this will encourage the players to get more active in character development and to take more ownership in the story.

    Maybe spending Karma to get a hint from the GM on where to go?

    Divine Inspiration 5 Karma?

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      CommentAuthorgaaran
    • CommentTimeMay 6th 2010
     

    Perhaps a tangible reward would be the incentive the other players need to become more involved in the wiki? That’s a good idea about divine inspiration, I might add that to my prestige point benefits that I got from Arsheesh.

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      CommentAuthorJimTriche
    • CommentTimeMay 6th 2010
     

    Well so far I have ‘Item or Weapon Creation’ and ‘Provide food for entire group” as a starting point.

    Gonna get a few more, maybe talk to my co-GM and the players and see what they think would be good for that.

    Karma Page

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      CommentAuthorsandman
    • CommentTimeMay 7th 2010
     

    Arsheesh: the points I use don’t refresh each session. I’ve seen your prestige points (or Karma points, or Fate points) but I wanted to do something a little bit different, that’s why I chose to go with the 100 options list. In my campaign, the players earn points, spend them for a roll on the list, and get the benefit, which they can use whenever they want as a free action (the benefits don’t expire, so they can save them for as long as they want, and they can even stack or combine them).

    Garaan: the section looks much more organized now. I like that you added secret stuff too. BTW: thanks for the acknowledgment xD

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      CommentAuthorJimTriche
    • CommentTimeMay 7th 2010
     

    Hmmm. Sandman, I may well be robbing you now getting inspiration for something new to do.

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      CommentAuthorgaaran
    • CommentTimeMay 7th 2010 edited
     

    Jim, i like your use of karma for OOC stuff, simple and effective. shadowrun looks pretty well set up for that.

    Sandman, yeah I think that’s my final version until I actually use it and test it out. And yeah, the secret stuff is all the story and plot based achievements. If someone misses a session where the players got it, too bad for them, they miss out. You’re welcome for the acknowledgment, I did pull a few names for the achievements off your list after all :).

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      CommentAuthorJimTriche
    • CommentTimeMay 7th 2010
     

    Putting links to your profiles up. Once I feel REALLLLLLY ambitious, I may try an acknowledgments page like Arsheesh has. Long time away though for now I just put the links up on the main page. Thanks for all the help and ideas!

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      CommentAuthorJimTriche
    • CommentTimeMay 7th 2010
     

    Yup gaaran, Shadowrun is quite easy to reward players with. I mean, we used to do similar stuff with D&D, 100xp for bringing the GM a burger and fries, etc.

    I.. think… that’s why I’m fat.

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      CommentAuthorsandman
    • CommentTimeMay 7th 2010 edited
     

    Putting links to your profiles up. Once I feel REALLLLLLY ambitious, I may try an acknowledgments page like Arsheesh has. Long time away though for now I just put the links up on the main page. Thanks for all the help and ideas!

    I copied/pasted/modified Arsheesh’s acknowledgments’ page (with his permission). Here’s how it turned out in case you want to check it out: Acknowledgments (it’s one of the few english pages of my site, it’s also in spanish).

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      CommentAuthorarsheesh
    • CommentTimeMay 7th 2010
     

    Yeah thanks Gaaran for the shout out. You’re site just keeps getting better and better each time I visit it.

    Cheers,
    -Arsheesh

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      CommentAuthorJimTriche
    • CommentTimeMay 7th 2010 edited
     

    Gaaran, hope you don’t mind, I loved this idea and am gonna use some.

    Achievements

    I’m giddy and can’t wait until my players see this.

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      CommentAuthorJimTriche
    • CommentTimeMay 7th 2010 edited
     

    And here’s my take on Sandman’s rolled benefit idea, though mine are permanent increases and powerful. As such they’re expensive. Our longest running character is 3 years and only has 8 Karma Pool.

    Exceptional Abilities

    Lemme know whatchoo think. That includes opinions on the Ability names. Some of them suck.

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      CommentAuthorgaaran
    • CommentTimeMay 7th 2010
     

    Those look pretty awesome, but they don’t all appear to be created equal. for example, on the third table rolling a 3 would suck compared to the rest of them if a character is not magically active. Just something to think about.

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      CommentAuthorJimTriche
    • CommentTimeMay 7th 2010
     

    Actually, their inequality was a conscious decision on my part, since they’re all pretty darned powerful, I wanted a “sub-prime” roll pair on each table, which is usually 3 and 4 on the die.

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      CommentAuthorgaaran
    • CommentTimeMay 7th 2010
     

    ah, okay, well, well done then :).

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      CommentAuthormunkybut
    • CommentTimeMay 9th 2010
     

    These are some fantastic ideas! I really like the acheivement system, but I don’t know that I have the record keeping ability to keep track of all of those things. I really like the ideas on the temporary bonuses. Sandman, I especially love your point system. Though I’m not entirely sure how the plethora of points are spent on your list. But the ontime bonus is a brilliant idea…what with everyone always being up to an hour late…

    I have implemented my own system. I may end up reworking it as there is not a plethora of combat in my campaign…
    House Rules

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      CommentAuthorarsheesh
    • CommentTimeMay 9th 2010 edited
     

    Nice. Just a small correction though MB, your current explanation of Hero points is missing some terms regarding “contribution” i.e.:

    “I strongly encourage the (joint building) of this site. Any additions made will be rewarded with hero points”.

    Otherwise looks to be a good start.

    Cheers,
    -Arsheesh

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      CommentAuthorsandman
    • CommentTimeMay 9th 2010 edited
     

    Munkybut: Here’s a rough translation of what’s in spanish in my adv.points page:

    You can get Adventure Points for helping with the game and the campaign.

    When you accumulate 10 points, you can exchange them for a roll in the d100 list. The points you earn don’t expire, but just as action points, they are meant to be spent.

    The benefits you get can be used instantly, or you can save them indefinitely. Unless stated otherwise, benefits can be used as a free action (in and out of an encounter).

    Ways to get Adventure Points

    Unique:

    • Write your character’s background in Obsidian Portal – 10 pts.
    • Read the PHB (you don’t have to read each power, but at least chapters 8 and 9 thoroughly) – 5 pts.

    Ongoing:

    • Arrive on time to a D&D session, prepared with you character sheet, pen, paper, books, dice, etc. (time flexibility of ± 15 minutes) – 1 pt./session.
    • Take detailed notes about the development of the history – 2 pts./session.
    • Bring snacks (drinks/food) – 2 pts./session.
    • Bringing props for your character (clothing items, weapons, trinkets, etc.) – 1 pt./session
    • Spend u$s 5 on RPG-related products (DDI/Character Builder, books, dice, costumes or props, power cards, etc.) – 1 pt./u$s 5 (for this one I made a conversion fo US dollars, since in Argentina we use “pesos” as currency and RPG materials have different prices).

    Additionally, each players can also give out up to 2 points per session to other players. These can be given out for good role-playing, problem solving, tactics, creativity, and for humor and fun.

  1.  

    I think I’m gonna make an achievement system for my Shadowrun campaign. I’ll be using the site that makes Steam-style achievements: http://www.teamfortress2.fr/achievements.php?eng

    I’ll post a link to the relevant list when I’ve got it made up. I’m figuring on having a lengthy list, with some hidden surprises.

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      CommentAuthorSHINenzo
    • CommentTimeJan 26th 2011
     

    I’ve been working on my campaign for the past few months and I actually made a large list of achievements a while back. I have all the files saved in my D&D folder. Achievements really do sound like a fun idea. I plan on implementing them into gameplay to give benefits to the characters.

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      CommentAuthorDuskreign
    • CommentTimeJan 26th 2011
     

    (ahem…) years… not months…

    Achievements could be cool. They could also be a needless complication, if mishandled. If you’re considering this, I recommend thinking through whether the work will wind up paying dividends in the long run. If you think you can incorporate achievements in a way that actually adds something to the game, instead of merely being a short-lived novelty, then go for it.

  2.  

    I have too many great ideas that seem like short lived novelty, actually. I don’t have enough experience in what works/what doesn’t to make the educated guesses required, though.

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      CommentAuthorgaaran
    • CommentTimeJan 28th 2011
     
    As the progenitor of this thread, and being one that used my achievements enough in my game for my players to rack up a couple hundred points (between 10-15 achievements each), let me say that it was really cool at first, but then they just sort of became an after thought that we'd just check every couple sessions. Don't get me wrong, my players still liked getting the +1 stat boost every so often from points, but it eventually lost it's luster, and was no longer shiny and new. However, they never became a drag, just an extra bit of record keeping. Just my two cents for those are are thinking of this idea.
  3.  
    I'm glad to see all this discussion. I'm thinking of having a brownie-points system in my campaign, though I'll probably be limiting the rewards to dice re-rolls and roll bonuses, and maybe extra actions.

    Perhaps similarly relevant, the In Vitro campaign is going to be amazingly limited with regard to playable races and classes, but I'm already considering situations under which others could "unlock". For example, I'm nixing Goliaths at the beginning because they're currently shunned by the noble races. If the PCs bring about an alliance, then if a player was really wanting all along to play a Goliath, we'd work that in at the next natural stopping point (not necessarily requiring the old character's death - I'm not going to cheat myself out of a possibly useful NPC! ;) Similarly, if the party successfully conquers the dangers and secrets of Mount Vahlheim, they'll eventually be able to play warforged.

    I mention the above 'cause that's another flavor of achievement, IMO.
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      CommentAuthorgaaran
    • CommentTimeJan 30th 2011
     

    That’s better than achievements because you actually get things. If you’re looking for a brownie points sort of thing, Arsheesh create the prestige points system for rewarding characters for out of game contributions, which can be found Here

    I used the prestige points system in my game, and it worked very well. One of my players got up to 14 at one point, so he had some fun with that until they got into a fight with a mid-boss and they were screwed. He burned like 9 points to take 9 extra attacks and hack the boss to pieces (he was the only one left, and the mid-boss was capable of dealing enough damage to incapacitate one PC per turn :). Anyway, the prestige points system was much more fun and manageable, in the long term, than achievements.

  4.  

    I like Arsheesh’s Prestige points – I’ll have to bring it up with my group to see if they might find some use for it. The issue being that White Wolf’s system already has that kind of system already built in with Willpower and all that, combined with the virtues. But I also want to encourage my players to contribute!

  5.  
    I definitely like the Prestige Points idea, but I intend to stay away from options like getting feats or items with said points. I'll let those sorts of things come about as more natural-feeling consequences of the actions which get them said points.

    Bonuses to rolls, re-rolls, automatic saves, though...those are precisely the sorts of things I'd love to give as rewards for good RP or helpful contributions. It'd be kind of like when I cheat in the PCs' favor, except then they get to control when it happens.
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      CommentAuthortwiggyleaf
    • CommentTimeFeb 6th 2011 edited
     

    Gaaran

    I like your idea of Milestones and Achievements. You have drawn up quite a comprehensive list and my only concern is that it is quite complicated and will create lots of extra work for you as DM. I have a Prestige Point award system similar to some of those mentioned above but it is a lot simpler than yours.

    In any case, it provides exciting differences to any game and that can only make it more exciting in anyone’s book. I would watch out for being able to add too much to character requisites though – you might find that if some players work the system, your characters get too powerful too quickly.

    Thanks for the discussion and I love the layout on Melekar Chronicles!

    Mark aka twiggyleaf

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      CommentAuthorgaaran
    • CommentTimeFeb 7th 2011
     

    @twiggyleaf: I’m in the process of updating so this link was kind of hidden, but here is how I kept track of everything TL. I printed the pages with the points and achievements so the players would have a copy to help keep track. It’s true they’re not for everyone, but I’m all about improvising as I DM, so I never have a problem with players getting to powerful, I just make the challenges tougher on the fly.

    @Femmelegion: that makes sense, not wanting players to gain permanent benefits. Something else that I started implementing was ad-libbed prestige point use. Sort of like action points in d20 modern or force points in star wars. If the player wanted to do something crazy that normally wouldn’t be possible, but it would be really cool, i would make up a cost in prestige points (usually 1-3) and let them have a shot (either just having it work, or still having them make rolls, just have those rolls not be impossible, since they spent their points after all).

    @Rase: I think we worked out a pretty good way of doing it, being able to cash in three prestige points to regain one willpower point. Not unbalancing, and it allows recognition to be given for those that are active and contributing, while not penalizing those that, due to priorities and circumstance, are unable to contribute as much.

  6.  

    Huzzah! It works! I’m quite pleased as punch that it’ll all work out the way we set it up. Now I sit, watching the RSS feed voraciously, waiting to pounce when the opportunity arises :)

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      CommentAuthorCurufea
    • CommentTimeFeb 9th 2011
     

    I have some, somewhat comedic, metagaming badges and awards that may be of interest :)

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      CommentAuthorRayPrancer
    • CommentTimeFeb 12th 2011
     

    Following on from this – I’ve been inspired to add Achievements to my game – though really they’re just a list of milestones I expect a newly created caster or psion to achieve. Penalties of not being able to use the normal associated rules for not having them – except the second which just precludes location specfic feats from being taken (if you don’t know what your region of origin is then it’s not going to be one that has them when there are several that don’t).

    List here

  7.  

    Karma points. Circa 1986. Check it out. Wiki Explanation of Karma Points

    These can be used pretty effectively to help control/ encourage appropriate player actions in alignment/ morality heavy campaigns. I have also used it for Paladin and Anti-Paladin PCs before, numerous times— as an add on just for the player controlling the paladin / anti paladin. The only real modification needed to use these in a d20 system is that the GM occasionally awards the Karma points as she sees fit for player actions.

    Just the basic version of Karma points— the advanced version doesnt really work at all in a d20 system. But its similar to what you guys are talking about, with the added dimension of having to follow an ethical code/ alignment or risk losing those Karma points.

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      CommentAuthorHoebagger
    • CommentTimeFeb 13th 2011
     
    I have Achievements for my games that cross campaigns and so on like that. I've allowed 1000 points in the main bulk and then I add on additional 250 point packs that are campaign specific (Planescape, Ravenloft, etc). When the group as a whole hits 500 points I give them the option of receiving a new pack of achievements from a list that are themed (Fail pack, Slayer Pack, and so on) so that the achievements never become stagnant.

    I allow my PC's to use their points in a type of shop that would allow them to do things not normally allowed, or other beneficial things, for example: - An additional 3.5 Trait (from Unearthed Arcana): 50 G or - Max Life at odd levels (3/5/7 etc): 200 G

    Another friend of mine who developed a set for his own began adding metagaming achievements for things like attending 3 sessions in a row, and that sort of thing. Personally I prefer in game things like Right to Bear Arms: 15 G (Without weapons or armor, wrestle and knock a bear unconscious). Really it opens the game up a lot but you have to make the rule that you won't allow players to do something that their character normally wouldn't do (such as cutting themselves into negative hp so they can get the stabilizing achievement). This minor rule to the system is rather important and forces players to be quite ingenious when devising strategies.

    One common flaw I've noticed in people making achievement systems for their games is that there is too much subjectivity or improper word usage in the description of the achievement and as a result the DM just decides "oh you didn't get it" which is contrary to the objective nature of Xbox 360 achievements. For example take this achievement |"Well that was a waste" 10 GS Fall in battle| The intent may have been for this achievement to be awarded to those who had their character die in combat, but technically being tripped should also unlock the achievement.

    As of January 1st 2011 my gamerscore was legitimately at 150,000 for 360 and I can attest to the frustration of poorly worded achievement descriptions. However it would only become infinitely worse if actually unlocking achievements was a subjective process.

    Overall I find that Achievements can be very beneficial to Pen and Paper games when done right. It's good to consult experts in the field when making achievements though because it is easy to get the system wrong.
  8.  

    Hoebagger, take a look at my campaign’s list. Tell me what you think. Do I have any that need clarifying? Are there any that should be dropped? Maybe something that I missed?

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      CommentAuthorHoebagger
    • CommentTimeFeb 15th 2011
     
    Thank you very much for asking my advice LonePaladin, I am glad to help.

    Overall your list looks well done and is clearly well thought out. I enjoy the visible appeal to them, where did you find such an achievement generator? Also the balance seems appropriate in terms of easily obtainable to those that require a bit of work. Congratulations on a flavorful and efficient list.

    With regards to a few specific achievements:

    Wrecking Ball: You may wish to specify that this is either over a lifetime or all in one go (which would no doubt be an incredible achievement indeed).
    Flyswatter: I believe the descriptor "unfriendly" would do well to go in front of aircraft. From personal experience I have accidentally left that out before and had unfortunate (but hilarious) events ensue.
    Loaded Dice: You may wish to clarify that this is in a single roll rather than over the course of a session.
    Pwn3d: You also may wish to add "over the course of your entire career" to this description.
    Ace: I like this one, but you might want to consider specifying an enemy type so your characters don't just go out and kill small animals to boost it.
    Velcro Pineapple: This is great, but I'm curious to know whether or not this is intended to be during a combat session or not.
    You can pick your friends...: I always love achievements like this, but I've found adding "that further the goals of the group" cuts down significantly on people trying to boost it.
    This Stuff...: You may wish to add the "full" descriptor to "clips" in order to reduce boosting.
    They See Me Rollin': Beautiful, simply beautiful.

    Aside from that I would like to know if you as the GM are keeping track of your players' progress for achievements such as "Wrecking Ball" or if your players are. I've seen sessions where things get recorded or added incorrectly (accidentally of course I don't entertain liars) due to smudging or something similar.

    Thanks again, I look forward to your reply.
  9.  

    I got the achievement generator here:
    http://www.teamfortress2.fr/achievements.php?eng

    As for the Velcro Pineapple one, it’s very hard to predict just where a grenade will end up, due to the random nature of the bounce rules. This is intended for those times where someone clearly wants to put one in a specific spot, aims for a different one, and the dice wind up placing it where they wanted.

    I changed Wrecking Ball to be all in one go.

    Pwn3d was not meant to be an “over the course of your career” thing, ‘cause they’d have that within the first session. It’s meant to be an all-or-nothing one, because it requires getting eight hits (dice that count as successes) MORE than their opponent (f’rinstance, if their opponent got 4 hits on dodging an attack, they’d need 12 hits total). Not impossible, but not quite easy either.

    As for recordkeeping, it’s going to be somewhat fast and loose. Not everyone in my game has Internet access at this time.